Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Do you reload your own SD ammo?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by sb350hp, Oct 27, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sb350hp

    sb350hp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    195
    Location:
    Oregon
    Do you purchase all your SD/HD loads for your handguns? I have heard that in the legal circles there is a stigma behind SD handloads if ever faced with a legal battle over SD. The problem I face is that I cannot afford to practice with say Hydra-Shoks all the time. It just gets way to expensive. I want to know that my SD round feeds reliably and a box of 50 does not build my confidence 30 bucks at a time.

    Currently I have been reloading 185gr JHP from Rainier (purchased thru midway). I have recovered a few from the bank that I shoot into and expansion seems OK and as far as accuracy and reliability I have had zero problems in 300+ rounds and my groups are 2" at 12yds consistantly with maybe one flyer per mag.

    What do ya think?
     
  2. AKCOP

    AKCOP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    200
    If you are a competent handoader you can ceratinly make your own SD loads and feel great about them. I have been carrying handloads for years. With the cost savings I find I am rotatiing my ammo more often insuring a nice fresh load in my weapon of choice and practice far more often then if I were using expensive factory ammo. Good luck
     
  3. Steve H

    Steve H Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Southern Utah
    Load my own. I'll start a new gun, espically if it's a new cal., on factory stuff in order to make sure it functions properly and build up a brass supply. Once I'm happy with the gun it's time to start trying different recipies.
     
  4. Brian Williams

    Brian Williams Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,833
    Location:
    Kampong Cham, Cambodia
    yep, all my ammo is reloaded, too cheap to buy new.
     
  5. shadowalker

    shadowalker Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    640
    Location:
    Idaho
    I am not against carrying with hand loads but I wouldn't load plated bullets (either Rainer or Berry's) for daily carry, I do use them for practice quite often though.

    XTPs are around $15/100 and Gold Dots $15-$20 for 100 around here.
     
  6. sb350hp

    sb350hp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    195
    Location:
    Oregon
    Shadowalker

    What is your issues w/ plated? Agreed they are not the best but do you have a negative perspective on them for any specific reason?
     
  7. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    5,061
    Location:
    S.E. Minnesota
    I load my own for home defense (.38 SPL 158 grain LSWCHP.) I don't carry; if I did I might use factory ammo for that. I don't think legally it makes any difference, but I wouldn't wanna be the test case. OTOH, if someone breaks into my castle it would be hard for any prosecutor to claim that I was out looking for trouble because I'm trigger-happy, no matter what Massad Ayoob says.

    There was a case a year or two ago where the type of ammo someone used in SD made a difference when a guy in Arizona was carrying a 10mm to protect against mountain lions. He was attacked by 2 dogs and shot them (or maybe shot the ground right in front of the dogs, i don't remember) He was then attacked by the enraged dogs' owner and shot him in SD. The jury decided that the shooting might have been justified, but using a 10mm was just too much (the cops don't even carry handguns that powerful!) and they found him guilty of manslaughter. :banghead:
     
  8. Cannonball888

    Cannonball888 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,172
    Location:
    Florida
    Massad Ayoob doesn't recommend using handloads for SD because it can be used against you in court.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2007
  9. AKCOP

    AKCOP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    200
    If the fact that you use handloads to defend yourself is used against you in court you need to fire your lawyer and find a better one. I mean if it was a justified shooting you shouldn't even be in court unless of course you had the previously mentioned crappy lawyer.
     
  10. Ron James

    Ron James Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,335
    Location:
    Arizona
    It doesn't matter if it is a justified shooting or not, If the prosecutor needs a conviction to round out his resume you can be hauled in to court. Remember the AG controls the grand jury. There's an old saying that a good prosecutor can get the grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. With so many good factory loads on the market, why even consider using reloads for self defence? I reload , but only for target and hunting, I wouldn't even consider using reloads for self defence. Just my humble opinion, you do what ever floats your boat, but before you start making statements such as " it's a good shoot , why worry about the courts", you really , really should spend a few days just siting in the court room and learning just how the law really works. A good prosecutor can convince a jury that the Virgin Mary was a hooker.
     
  11. shadowalker

    shadowalker Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    640
    Location:
    Idaho
    Plated bullets are usually very soft lead with thin copper jackets, they are intended for practice and are constructed cheaply so they can pass the savings on to the consumer, I am not comfortable trusting my life to the cheapest constructed bullet.

    My cost for 100 hand loaded XTP's is about $20 and $25 for Gold Dots, these replicate factory loads so I can carry either factory or hand loads if I wanted to. In Idaho or Alaska I'd feel pretty comfortable carrying hand loads for self defense, some of the other states that barely believe in a person's right to self defense I'd be more cautious in.

    I shoot thousands of Berry's plated for practice and have a good amount of them loaded, in a SHTF scenario I would use them but they are not what I carry.

    The man with the 10mm also seemed to have a pretty bad defensive team, the jury also mentioned the use of JHP influenced them.

    A good attorney would have made the point that the 10mm is equivilant to the 357 magnum which was very popular with police for years and is still in use and also would have easily defused the JHP problem.
     
  12. SaxonPig

    SaxonPig Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,787
    I think that using hand loads in a defensive shooting COULD become an issue as a smart lawyer would make you look like a bloodthirsty killer loading your own ammo for extra killing power because factory ammo just doesn't kill fast enough.

    I know it's ridiculous but remember that the jury would NOT be made up of shooters and gun owners. They might swallow that baloney.

    Having said that I do load my own .38 Specials because no factory 38 load I have tried makes me comfortable. I find the +P with a 125 at 925 FPS to be a good plinking load. For SD I use the same 125 JHP at 1,150 FPS with fine results in J and K frame Smiths. I don't worry too much about legal consequences because in my state courts and juries don't punish law abiding people who shoot criminals. If I lived in a less friendly state I would reconsider.

    My primary carry gun is a 9mm with factory 115 +Ps.
     
  13. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,985
    Location:
    Texas
    I use whatever I think is the best bullet, whether I load it or it's a factory load makes no difference.

    My first consideration is to stay alive and stop the attacker as fast as possible, with as deadly a bullet as I can buy or hand load.
    I wouldn't even consider reducing my chances by using a less effective bullet just because of the EXTREMELY REMOTE possibility that I might have to explain it in court.
     
  14. mavracer

    mavracer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    4,345
    Location:
    wichita
    I can't see where it should make a difference as long as you are replicating some acceptable load (read factory or duty ammo) I wouldn't go over listed max or modify bullets.not to hijack thread but I have two instances where I use rainier plated HP for SD one is 44 special 240 grn loaded to 900fps because the gun shoots this load very well and at that velocity the soft lead HP should work well if not it's still .429. and the other is my IPSC/IDPA 10mm load 165 rainier load at 1000-1100 fps once again at the modest velocity they should work well and since I only carry these to and from matches I can hardly think they could prove I loaded them special.
     
  15. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    For rifles, yes. Most factory loads are geared for game level penetration.

    This is a very old issue and has been argued at great length. But the legal concerns with handloads involve forensics, not any impact they would have on the justification of self defense. There are also concerns over reliability esp. over time if you haven't sealed your primers properly.
     
  16. WSM MAGNUM

    WSM MAGNUM Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    Messages:
    194
    Location:
    New Windsor, Maryland
    Yes, I reload my own ammo for self defense as well as hunting and target shooting. I will trust my ammo over the factory to perform every time because I know that each round has been inspected by my own eyes and I know what components every round has in it.
     
  17. BikerRN

    BikerRN member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    765
    Location:
    "State of Discombobulation"
    For courtroom survival I carry factory ammunition.

    I'm not going to go in to it here, this topic has been beat to death. I will just say that I believe that anyone who carries "handloads" for self defense is the same as a lawyer that defends himself in court.

    Biker
     
  18. RyanM

    RyanM Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,412
    Location:
    PA
    Handload. Can't afford factory. And I can get better performance than factory ammo anyway.
     
  19. Rudy Kohn

    Rudy Kohn Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Now, I'll admit before saying anything else that I have no experience with handloading...

    That said, couldn't you hypothetically develop a load that simulates the recoil, point-of-impact, velocity, etc. of your favorite SD round and use those for practice?

    Is that unfeasible for some reason?
     
  20. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    21,692
    Location:
    Northeast PA, USA
    Since I can't afford to practice with the SD ammo I carry, I practice with my reloads. I did buy some Factory ammo for carry. Since I carry Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P I used Speer's data to replicate their ammo. I use Speer Brass, CCI primers and Gold Dot bullets and I get the same velocity and feel from my reloads. I guess you can say I get the best of both worlds from my plan.

    It's just a real shame we have to worry about what ammo you carry. This is not the same country I was born in.
     
  21. BikerRN

    BikerRN member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    765
    Location:
    "State of Discombobulation"
    Duplicating a "factory" load for practice is fine, IMHO. I do not however think one should carry a handload for self defensive purposes.

    I shoot reloads at the range, on the street I carry factory ammo.

    Biker
     
  22. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    9,563
    Location:
    Forestburg, Texas
    First of all, get one thing straight. Everything about the shooting circumstance and circumstances leading up to the shooting are likely to come into play. If your shoot is questionable and goes to trial, the prosecutor will use everything in his/her power to get a legal conviction. Gun type and ammo type are included. They will both be used against you. A classic example is Harold Fish who shot factory hollowpoints. The fact that he used hollowpoint ammo bothered some of the jurors and that has lead some people to believe that hollowpoint ammo got him convicted. Reading the case, it seems that his version of the story did not fit the forensic evidence and that is what got him convicted - his claim of self defense not being justified.

    So how does Ayoob say handloads can be used against you? If you are worried about the prosecutor saying they are uber lethal or whatever, that can be said about any round and was said about Fish's hollowpoints. So that is a given.

    No, it wasn't that hollowpoints can be used against you in a self defense shooting. It was was that a lack of known loading standards means they can't be used in support of your defense in regard to gun shot residue. He cites a couple of cases where GSR would have been critical in proving the defendant's story that could not be proved because handloads were used.

    So dont' practice with Hydrashoks all the time. If you reload, this is a no-brainer. Develop a load with the comparable recoil and muzzle flash characteristics of Hydrshoks as fired from your gun. It is that simple.

    I don't reload, but what I found is that Blazer ball 230 gr. .45 acp is a good match for Hydrashok 230 gr. in recoil characteristics, POI, and muzzle flash and so I feel fine about practicing with Blazer and it being a decent substitute for Hydrashoks on the range.
     
  23. PotatoJudge

    PotatoJudge Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    Texas
    In a semiauto, bullet profile is very important when it comes to reliability. Hydrashoks aren't available as components so there's no way to really test them without buying lots of expensive loaded ammo. That's part of the reason I use Golden Sabers.
     
  24. Okiecruffler

    Okiecruffler Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    3,351
    Location:
    Del City, Okla
    If you're that worried about what happens after a shooting perhaps you shouldn't use a gun for SD. There be reloads in mine, I've never had one of my reloads fizzle, can't say the same for factory.
     
  25. CTPistol

    CTPistol Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2007
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    NY Metro
    No reloads here!

    I reload for all practise, and make a similar round...but go back to factory for carry.

    I agree with the few above about looking better in court. The general public does not think reloading (making your own bullets!) is normal. Any prosecutor will run you through as a Rambo type making super killer rounds. Who needs the added pressure?

    I reload 1000's of rounds, just not my SD stuff. Gun is stock and so is ammo.

    For home I also prefer to use the same defense gun and ammo that every trooper in my state carries.

    The argument about not being able to afford factory ammo or not getting the performance is pretty weak IMHO...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page