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Do you still believe?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by eatatjoes, Sep 20, 2003.

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  1. eatatjoes

    eatatjoes Member

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    I was discussing the current state of arms use in america with my roomate when this question came up.
    I say yes, a great many own firearms and are very proficient in their use. My roomate disagreed, he felt the overwhelming ignorance(citing his own previous lack of knowledge) to the uses of firearms in the general populace was so great that at the best the american rifleman is a breed that is dying out and is going to become extinct within our lifetime. he cited increasing hostility towards firearms ownership and firearms in general. I feel that with the increasing enactment of CCW laws we are turning back on the road to true freedom. What do you think?
     
  2. NIGHTWATCH

    NIGHTWATCH Member

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    Good question. ;) I think that we all will "become" great shooters if the call to arms ever came.

    How many do our armed forces number? 3 million? Less? And how many would carry out an order to harm Americans and end the constitution?

    How about law-enforcement across the country? 600,000? Ok, say 1 million. How many of them would comply?

    Now imagine every one of the 80 million+ gun owners in this country, grabbing their gun and walking out of their homes and standing in the streets at the same time. :D Its over. We WIN.

    The key is to keep the tradition and right alive. And for us shooters to be around to train the rest. :evil:
     
  3. Border

    Border Member

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    More American’s own guns than pre 9/11 but I do believe that it is way down per capita than what it was a century ago. We must always stay vigilante which is why people who do not contribute to the NRA etc. drive me around the bend! We could be a Democratic President and a few SCOTUS appointments away from becoming that “dying breed!†As for me, I bought 2 shotguns, a semi and a revolver this summer alone! :D
     
  4. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    Regionally? Yes.

    Overall, sadly, no.
     
  5. Kendra Pacelli

    Kendra Pacelli Member

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    I would have to say yes, only since I started on this board and really getting into range shooting and learning about the many different firearms out there, I have met quite a few permit holders! So, IMO, I definately would have to say yes
     
  6. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Quite frankly, my reseach has left me to believe that we were never a nation of riflemen until much later. We always had riflemen though from our earlier frontier days to the expansion across the plains. Poor marksmanship was one of the causes for the creation of the National Rifle Association after the Civil War.

    Speaking of Civil War times, rural folks (especially the Southerners in antebellum South) were very familar with firearms as were the midwesterners. However, the folks in the industrial North less so and a certain portion of it may be attributed to immigrations. There were always exceptions though and many sharp shooters who became Berdan's Sharpshooters were from the New England states. There was even a company of immigrants (Co. A, 75% Swiss, 25% German). In his post war book, Co. A. Capt. Rudolph Aschmann mentions that unlike Switzerland, rifle shooting was not popular in America. He however was settled in New York before enlisting.

    So, when did we become a nation of riflemen? I'd say after the NRA was founded and before WW I. Even then, a lot of recruits didn't know how to handle a rifle.
     
  7. greyhound

    greyhound Member

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    I'm in my early 30s and have always felt that my generation was the first to grow up in the "guns are evil" atmosphere. Yes, there were some laws passed earlier, but I bet that Vietnam and the change in values of the 1960s was when it really started to go downhill fast....
     
  8. Erik

    Erik Member

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    As a nation? Np.

    But, as already pointed out, regions may still claim "yes."
     
  9. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    Urban dwellers? Might own them, probably rarely shoot them.
    Rural citizens? Probably own AND shoot them.
    Hunters? Without a doubt.

    I'd opine that we have become a nation of "Handgunners" tho as opposed to "Riflemen" and are more "defensive" oriented than "Offensive" due to our pacific nature, lack of hunting for daily meals and urbanization over the last century.

    I could be wrong, but looking at the number of posts in any Firearm related board on "long-guns vs handguns" twould seem to be leaning more one way than the other.

    Adios
     
  10. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Actually, I would guess that there are way more guns per capita now than a century ago.

    The problem is that those guns are in the hands of a smaller percentage of the population.

    There probably was a time when almost every adult male had one or two guns. But the disposable income back then was much less and the one or two would have been those necessary for survival.

    Now, those who are interested can buy dozens of guns. Of course, they would have to sacrifice by buying fewer boats and snowmobiles, and taking fewer Caribean cruises :)

    The oldtimers didn't need to spend all night on the internet discussing which of their many rifles to use on the first day of deer season. They just used the (only) one they had.
     
  11. C.R.Sam

    C.R.Sam Moderator Emeritus

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    Saw a lot of that when growin older (never up) in the 30s and 40s. Some of us were gun nuts and gamers but most were pot hunters.

    Sam
     
  12. Keith

    Keith Member

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    We aren't the rifleman we we once were, but look at the competition. Most people from other nations have never touched a gun...

    Keith
     
  13. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    I don't really see that it matters ...

    I heard on the news that if you got one of them evil black Buschmeister rifles, that you can hit targets a mile away without any training or practice - you don't even have to aim it, cause the bullit is self guided.

    I gonna go out today and pick up some beer cans along the rode so I kin buy one of those them there rifles.
     
  14. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    50 years ago the sheeple outnumbered the wolves by maybe 10 to 1. Now they outnumber the wolves by 100 to 1 and it's getting worse.

    I'm glad I won't be around to see it but within the next 50 or so years I believe that the 2nd Amendment will be repealed, the American people will be disarmed and the sheep won't resist or even care.

    The USSA (United Socialist States of America) is in our Grand Children's future.
     
  15. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    Werewolf

    Sure hope you're not right (I'd never say you were wrong mind you) about your vote of gloom. When I see threads like the ones with the young soldiers over in Iraq I feel pretty sure that there will still be a contingent of American Citizens left who know and cherish the ideals stated in the Constitution, however small that group may be.

    But, then again, it may be that you are correct. I remember my Dad saying much the same back in '68.

    Both my son and daughter were brought up around my way of thinking and I echo the words, thoughts and deeds of my father and my uncles; all having served and believing in the Rights enumerated (and some not specifically enumerated) in the BOR's. Jake and Katie are now 20 and 18 respectively, both have a rifle, shotgun and handgun or two and can kill soda cans and punch pretty small groups on a target whenever they desire (we're still working on the clay pigeon busting). They stand to inherit a pretty fair collection started by my Dad, added to by my own foolish desire to own every firearm and edged implement of destruction I can get my hands on...

    My GF's kids also have learned how to shoot responsibly and someday they'll probably own one or two as well.

    Spread the Good Word to all of the responsible youth you encounter, they all seem to soak it up like a thirsty sponge.

    But the mommies of the world do seem to have taken over the media and the political spectrum thought (herd) process... so you may have a valid point.

    Teach your children well. Their father's hell, will slowly go by. CSN&Y

    Adios
     
  16. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    No. If a rifleman were just someone who owns a rifle, yes, we're a nation of riflemen on the average, but a.) a rifleman is someone who's proficient with rifles, and b.) my hunch is that the percentage of Americans who are actually proficient with rifles is much lower today than even fifty years ago. The figures for hand guns are probably somewhat higher, since they're more common today.
     
  17. toro

    toro Member

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    Well let me see. There are 258 million people in the U.S. There are four million members of the National Rifle Assoc. Before I retired I would say in an office of 2,000 I was the only one interested in shooting. so 258 into 4 is .015 %. I'd say that is not very many people interested in shooting.
    Of course there are lots of people who shoot and don't belong to the NRA.
    So, that means the 4 million members are carrying all the others as far as supporting the organization. Not saying I agree with all they do. Just saying that most gunowners don't really care about keeping their guns.

    Mrs. Toro


    ___________________________________________________
    1 Peter 4:19
    Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing as unto a faithful creator.
     
  18. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't know that we've ever been a nation of riflemen. Gun users and owners, yes.

    I believe there may be more skilled gun users today, per capita, than ever before.
     
  19. MPFreeman

    MPFreeman Member

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    Why was the NRA founded? Because us Americans couldn't shoot straight. We never have been, and presently aren't a nation of "rifle'mans'". And we ain't gonna be anytime soon. Just because 80million or so own guns, just means 80 million own guns. It doesn't mean anyone can shoot well.
     
  20. hillbilly

    hillbilly Member

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    I would bet cash money, if there would be any way to actually verify it, that there are more real riflemen in Arkansas (population something like 2.3 million) than there are in New York, California, and New Jersey combined.


    hillbilly
     
  21. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

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    I live in Arkansas, and being in the NW part of it I can only hope that hillbilly is correct. Fayettenam wouldnt convince me that AR has a disproportianately high number of riflemen.

    [dons flame-retardant suit]

    That saidâ„¢, I am not a "rifleman" in the sense of I am proficient in the use of it. I simply dont have the time to use it well or often. Its a poor excuse, but then the truth so often is.

    However, I had planned to go to the range today before I was stricken with some sort of "Gawd I wish I could die so that I could stop feeling so damned miserable" virus or something. *cough, hack, hack, cough* Oops, my lung seems to have fallen out. But its a healthy pink color, so that is reassuring...:uhoh: :scrutiny: :rolleyes:
     
  22. 444

    444 Member

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    Nation of Riflemen ?
    No

    Most of the people that actually own rifles can't shoot. I would say that the people that own rifles are in a minority. So, the people that I would consider to be even novice riflemen are few and far between.
     
  23. Spieler

    Spieler Member

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  24. toro

    toro Member

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    If people in Arkansas loved guns why would they elect Bill Clinton for Governor. How about the gun hating Gen. Clark? Clinton had to be the worst President for getting rid of guns. He is the one who decided to sue all the gun manufacuers and distributors etc. He came to Ohio and got money from the worst lawyer on the face of the earth for his money chest.


    Mrs. Toro.





    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Psalm 56: 4,5
    In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me. Every day they wrest my words: All their thought are against me for evil.
     
  25. David Scott

    David Scott Member

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    Back in the days when the rifle was a necessary everyday working tool for most folks, we were a nation of riflemen (and riflewomen). That began to change, I believe, in the "roaring '20s", when the first gun-control measures were passed as a way to brng charges against Mafia goons, who could be tagged for carrying weapons even if the Feds couldn't catch them doing anything else. So you can blame Prohibition for gun control, if you like.

    As late as WWII and Korea, there were still plenty of riflemen out there -- experienced ones who enlisted and became Army sharpshooters. But when I went into the Army (1973) I heard constant comments from range instructors that not one enlistee in 50 had ever handled a firearm before.

    Now we're an nation of marketing experts, which will be the downfall of our society.
     
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