Do you use FCD for lead semi-auto pistol loads?

[RustyFN]

If Lee does offer two FCDs, maybe label the FCDs with the size of the carbide sizer rings?

What do you think?

If they were marked from the factory good it would be OK. Still might get a little confusing. The only lead bullets I have loaded have been in 45 auto and 9mm. Didn't have any problems with the FCD in either. I am hoping to get a mould for 38/357 soon and will see if the FCD passes the lead bullet test in that caliber.

 

[LiveLife]

How about FCD with replaceable sizer insert? This way you can use:

1. FCD without the carbide sizer (essentially a taper crimp die for separate seat/taper crimp operations)
2. FCD with smaller carbide sizer for smaller diameter jacketed/plated bullets (.355" sized bullets)
3. FCD with larger carbide sizer for larger diameter lead bullets (.356" sized bullets)
4. FCD with even larger carbide sizer for even larger diameter lead bullets for oversized barrels (say .357"-.358" sized bullets)

Do you think Lee would go for something like this?

 

[oldreloader]

Just for kicks and giggles I loaded some lead bullets in 9MM and 45 ACP with a taper crimp die and then the same loads with a FCD. I thought the FCD would not work well with lead bullets. To my suprise the groups with the FCD were smaller than the regular taper crimp.

 

[Uniquedot]

how about if Lee offered another FCD with a LARGER diameter carbide sizer ring for larger diameter lead bullets?

They do offer oversize factory crimp dies they just don't advertise them. I emailed with this question a couple of years ago and the response i received was "contact the factory if you wish to purchase oversize factory crimp dies for your revolver loading as they are available"

How about FCD with replaceable sizer insert? This way you can use:

1. FCD without the carbide sizer (essentially a taper crimp die for separate seat/taper crimp operations)
2. FCD with smaller carbide sizer for smaller diameter jacketed/plated bullets (.355" sized bullets)
3. FCD with larger carbide sizer for larger diameter lead bullets (.356" sized bullets)
4. FCD with even larger carbide sizer for even larger diameter lead bullets for oversized barrels (say .357"-.358" sized bullets)

Do you think Lee would go for something like this?

Now there is an idea! it seems it would be simple for them to offer them with replaceable rings as their speed dies allowed the carbide sizer to be screwed on and off the die body. I sold all of my speed dies, but the bodies would be perfect for this use.

 

[Uniquedot]

For those that may not be familiar with the speed die mentioned in my above post i found this one on egay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEE-CARBIDE...748?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56466513ac

Note the knurl on the bottom of the die. This is the removable carbide sizer which threads inside the die. BDS i do believe your idea warrants a string of harassing emails and phone calls from thr users.

 

[Walkalong]

That idea would work. Just buy different ID carbide inserts.

 

[LiveLife]

Uniquedot, good idea! FCD with the removable carbide sizer.

I wonder if Lee would consider making the taper crimp die with the speed die bottom that can take different size carbide sizer?

BDS i do believe your idea warrants a string of harassing emails and phone calls from thr users

I sent Lee Precision an email with a link to this thread. If you look at the pictures below, I think it is very feasible since Lee probably still has the tooling to make the speed dies. Can you imagine? Future 4 die sets with FCD and carbide sizer ring of choice. (Remove the carbide sizer ring to use it as a separate taper crimp die and screw in the different sizer ring to custom tailor your FCD!)


Factory Crimp Die on the left - Speed die on the right (note removable carbide sizer on the bottom):

 

[codefour]

I am not a fan of the Lee FCD in both lead revolver and lead semi-auto. I had bad experiences with both. Granted, I only used Lee dies sets on .357 and 9mm. I found the FCD had resized the case again distorting the seating and bullet. I could feel the case resizing on the case mouth and neck with the FCD. I was loading various MBC bullets with a BHN of 18. The round I did pull, I found the FCD had changed the size of the bullet to smaller dimensions. I also had leading issues as well.

I have only been reloading for 18 months or so. I contacted a friend who has been reloading for 40 years who taught me to reload. He advised to get a set of RCBS dies and avoid the FCD. He told me the FCD distorts teh cases.

Since I have bought an entire set of RCBS with an additional crimp die for each. My leading has dropped to pretty much zero. I shoot at least weekly. I thought I noticed a slight increase in accuracy without the FCD. It was not a scientific based observation just my general observation.

Why would you need to resize a resized case if it is loaded properly anyway? Just keep the belling to an absolute minimum (even as much as you can with lead) and seat and crimp with out the extra resize. Lee is the only one to offer the FCD. Dillon, Hornady, Redding, Lyman, and RCBS do not implement it. I only use RCBS and Dillon dies now for pistol. They seem to operate a lot smoother on a progressive press that the Lees did. Jus' my $0.02 worth.

 

[Stormin.40]

I voted no, I haven't tried with .401 sized lead bullets because I had issues with .400 sized plated bullets. The FCD would lengthen my OAL when post sizing, maybe I got and undersized FCD? I seat and crimp with my RCBS dies.

I now only use the FCD as a buldge buster for range brass.

 

[USSR]

I have been reloading for semi-auto pistols for 31 years taper crimping in a separate step. No problems ever with rounds chambering.

+1. The solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Don

 

[TonyT]

In my opinion the LEE FCD is absoluitely not required to produce excelent ammunition. Any set of factory dies properly adjusted will pruduce ammunition within factory specs.

 

[mgmorden]

In my opinion the LEE FCD is absoluitely not required to produce excelent ammunition. Any set of factory dies properly adjusted will pruduce ammunition within factory specs.

Really depends. My 9mm loads I've started playing with not using the FCD and I've been fine, but on my .38 special loads depending the bullet I'm using I've had some rounds that wouldn't fit my cylinder (at least not without forcing them in) after being loaded until I used a FCD.

By a strange occurrence I actually have 3 .38 Special seaters (RCBS, Herters, and Lee) and all did that with those bullets (125 Grn plated HP's from Rainier).

 

[wally]

I use them in 9mm, .380ACP, .38Super, 10mm, .40S&W, & .45ACP

I'll choose reliability over accuracy every time. YMMV.

If they reduce accuracy, its small enough I've never noticed it, although I rarely shoot off sandbags or a rest if not adjusting sights which I pretty much only do with factory loads. My reloads are worked up to try and match POA/POI to the factory loads. I've not changed my recipes in a long time.

 

[Walkalong]

It is unnecessary to choose reliability over accuracy, as you can easily have both using a standard three die set.

 

[jcwit]

Really depends. My 9mm loads I've started playing with not using the FCD and I've been fine, but on my .38 special loads depending the bullet I'm using I've had some rounds that wouldn't fit my cylinder (at least not without forcing them in) after being loaded until I used a FCD.

Try dropping a resized and unloaded case into the cylinder, if it fits and then does not with a bullet its gotta be obvious that the bullet and case are being resized, the oversize whatever has got to go somewhere.

 

[LiveLife]

For me accuracy is everything. Reliability? That's simply part of my basic reloading process and quality control check steps. And yes, I do use 3 die set for jacketed, plated and lead bullets and they have worked reliably even in tight chambered pistols. If I run into reliability issues with a new bullet/pistol, I investigate to identify the cause and work on it until I have reliability. Then I work on obtaining accuracy.

Also, I want to clarify that our FCD discussion is with semi-auto pistol cases and larger diameter lead bullets using taper crimp, not with revolver cases using roll crimp or with jacketed diameter bullets.

Hope that clarifies the focus of the discussion.

 

[jcwit]

Also, I want to clarify that our FCD discussion is with semi-auto pistol cases and larger diameter lead bullets using taper crimp, not with revolver cases using roll crimp or with jacketed diameter bullets.

Hope that clarifies the focus of the discussion.

OK, then lets revise what I said and use the drop test with the barrel from a semi auto pistol. Same principal.

 

[RustyFN]

Try dropping a resized and unloaded case into the cylinder, if it fits and then does not with a bullet its gotta be obvious that the bullet and case are being resized, the oversize whatever has got to go somewhere.

Why go to all that trouble. If the case and bullet get post sized you will feel it, plain and simple.

 

[jcwit]

Why go to all that trouble. If the case and bullet get post sized you will feel it, plain and simple.

Because if in fact you're post sizing the case is not changing diameter the bullet is changing diameter. The material has to go somewhere it just does not disappear.

 

[LiveLife]

It may be early but the poll is about 50/50.

I still think having a removable carbide sizer in the FCD will make everyone happy. Those that want to use it can use it with the sizing of their choice and those that don't want to use it can take out the sizer ring and have the option to taper crimp separately.

But if Lee made a FCD with removable carbide sizer, what will we argue about then?

I guess we could always discuss the virtues of hand priming ...

 

[evan price]

So how about, like the Universal Decapping Die, a "Universal Factory Crimp Die"? Just a die body, and you buy whichever insert you want. No longer any need to include the FCD with the pistol sets. Just buy one FCD body and the collet of your choice. I forsee this as being the ticket for Bulge Busting.

IMHO I wouldn't want one anyway, I never saw the need for anything more than a 3-die set. Loaded thousands and thousands of rounds without an FCD. If your brass, bullets and dies are in spec it does nothing UNLESS you have a pistol with a tight Match chamber.

 

[ranger335v]

"...with larger diameter lead bullets (and many of you know I use tighter chambered Lone Wolf barrels for 9/40 and Sig 1911 for 45)."

Sooo...what's the point of "larger diameter lead bullets" in tight chambers and barrels?

 

[snuffy]

Since the use of FCD for jacketed diameter bullet is fine (as stated in OP, my contention with FCD is with the larger diameter lead bullets), how about if Lee offered another FCD with a LARGER diameter carbide sizer ring for larger diameter lead bullets?

Where are these mythical "larger diameter lead bullets" coming from? Since we're talking semi-auto's here, you may be talking about some who slug their barrels to determine what diameter they actually are. Then sizing their bullets,(or ordering oversize bullets), to a larger than normal size. THEN the lee FCD will squeeze the case against the bullet, sizing it, then spring back leaving a loose, low neck tension bullet.

Another way this happens is when loading oversize lead bullets with standard dies. The expander/beller is built/sized to work with jacketed bullets. When used with bigger lead bullets, it under-expands the neck of the case. Then, driving a soft lead bullet into that tight neck sizes it smaller. Has nothing to do with the FCD. It's been proven time and again over on castboolits.com. It just happens to be done while using the FCD, so it gets blamed because everybody knows it does that.

So okay, somebody has leading with .452 lead bullets in a 45 acp. He finds out how to slug his BBL. Viola, it's a foreign made 45 with .453 bore. So he sizes his cast at .454, loads using a standard dies, he still has leading. Someone says pull a bullet you just loaded in a case,(dummy, no primer-powder.) Holy cow, it's sized BY THE CASE to .452! Solution is to make or have made a larger expander plug for your dies. Then do NOT use a FCD, or you'll be right back where you started.

 

[Walkalong]

Things were so much simpler when we could just buy a three die set, or a crimp only die if we wanted to crimp in a fourth step. No worries, no leading, no FTF, no debate.........

 

[LiveLife]

I think one issue is when a new reloader buys a 4 die set to reload (regardless of jacketed/plated/lead bullets used), especially if he is using a 4 hole turret press, may feel compelled to use the FCD because it came in the die set.

The words "Factory Crimp" may appeal to the new reloaders in thinking, "Well, I better use the FCD if I want factory quality bullets" not fully realizing what the FCD actually does.

Perhaps "taper crimp die with carbide sizer ring" may be a more accurate description but maybe too long for a die name.