Does 44 mag get it done on Whitetail and Black Bear?

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Many years ago one of my friends was into the expensive bear dogs and bear hunting. He kept on wanting me to go and eventually I did. I took a Redhawk (a blued one even) with 300 grain xtp over a Ruger only load of 296. I went to spend time in the woods with a friend. I had no use for a dead bear, even a record dead bear, but that was my "bear defense" load. Lol. We drove 100 miles to a town in the blue ridge mountains called (I kid you not...) A-ho. Met up with some record holding bear hunters. These guys had brand new 20k trucks (pretty high at that time) with permanent tracking collar antenna and dog boxes mounted to them. Dedicated hunting trucks. They had dogs they paid 5-10k for. Then cheaper pack dogs just to protect the good dogs. Most had lever action guns. The 450 was new then and many had those. Some 45-70. A few 44 mag revolvers. One 45-70 revolver and a few 357. The x-frames weren't yet developed.

I hated the trip. Didnt see much sport in it. And nobody seen a bear. Although I see them regularly at home I drove 100 miles to walk a dog in the drizzling rain. Fond memories of it now but it was miserable back then. I met some nice guys. Some of kept in touch with until they passed. Eventually another dog cut its foot and somebody was going to have to walk out and drive back toward my home and take the dog....I volunteered and hauled the expensive dog home in the hatch area of a 500 dollar Mustang.
 
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98s1lightning said:
I'm considering a 20" rifle in 44 mag for my son as HIS first rifle, though we will start him on less recoiling rifles before he gets to IT. (I remember trying a 44 semi rifle as a 10yr old to 12yr old and disliking the recoil.)

I've never hunted with/or knew anyone to shoot deer with a 44 rifle.

How's it performing for you guys who use one?
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You might be thinking of the old Ruger model 44, if you didn't pull it back tight into your shoulder, it like to buck, especially with .44 mag ammo that was needed to operate it decently. My grand-daughter hunted deer for the first time this year and used my Ruger 77/44. I would suggest this little carbine to any dad/grandpa wanting to get their youngster into hunting deer. I have lever action .44s too, but, the little 77/44 is fed by a rotary mag and does not have to have all the rounds jacked out of it when emptying it. It also has the standard Ruger 3 position safety instead of the hammer that can be difficult for small hands that are cold or have gloves on. It also is easily scoped with a standard eye relief scope and is easy to operate. The reduced range of the .44 as opposed to a high powered centerfire rifle makes so errant shots are not as risky two miles and farther away. While it's lightweight, it covers recoil well and the size fits the stature of a smaller person. My little Ruger will shoot 2.5" patterns at 100 yards with my handloads and for my grand-daughter I watered my regular hunting load down a tad. Still did a complete passthru at 80 yards having to go thru the far side shoulder. Deer went 20 yards and fell over. I use jacketed bullets and prefer JSPs to JHPs for deer as many of the JHPs are designed for revolver velocities.
 
T.R. said:
44 MAG has a long history of toppling big game animals. But for target practice with a new shooter, I recommend choosing 44 Special ammo because of very light recoil. After a time you can introduce full power 44 MAG ammo. Hornady's Lever-evolution ammo features a 225 grain bullet that is deadly on deer sized animals. For bears I would hunt with a heavier weight such as the 270 grain Speer bullet.

TR
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When I first got my 44 mag I bought 250 225gr FTX’s. I tried every powder I had at my disposal to get those stupid bullets to shoot good groups. Best I could get was minute of softball at 75 yards. And that might be conservative. I think I went through 150 bullets before I said screw it. I ended up giving them away to a friend of mine who’s Marlin loved them. Ran by Sedalia MO to the Sierra Bullets plant (which is also literally next door to the Starline Brass plant) and bought a bunch of factory seconds 240gr JHC. With 23.5gr H-110, in Starline brass, I went from minute of softball at 75 yards, to minute of golf ball at 100. Been using them ever since.

The friend I gave the FTX’s to shot a decent 8 with them at 40 yards from his (previously my) Super Blackhawk. And they do perform. I’m not knocking the bullet at all. They just didn’t work for me. The XTP’s didn’t either. My gun just doesn’t like Hornady bullets. My 45-70 absolutely loves Hornady 350gr RN over H-4198. 1” at 100.
 
crestoncowboy said:
They had dogs they paid 5-10k for.
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Some people might think you’re BS-ing them on the price. You aren’t. I’ve seen coon dogs that are Grand Night Championed pedigree go for $10k a pup and (get this) No. Guarantee. To. Hunt. You might drop $10k on a dog that might slick tree every time. And people pay it. Blows my mind.
 
BigBore44 said:
go for $10k a pup and (get this) No. Guarantee.
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One of these had a couple Russian dogs. Said they were 8-10k. But I didn't know him. The guy I got to know after that had several and I seen him sell for 5k+. Lol.

To be honest I figure the one they gave me to walk around with was a scrub or young dog. Was a weimaraner. They didn't know me or my shooting ability and surely wouldn't have given me an expensive dog. She never barked and I didn't mind.

They were serious bear guys. Hunting our black bear was practice for the other bear they paid to go hunt.
 
crestoncowboy said:
Was a weimaraner.
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They were bear dogs. She might not have struck out (barked) because there wasn’t anything there. They’re a great breed. Not as hearty as others. But you have to judge every dog individually. I bet she either had good blood and they wanted to see if she would hunt. Or she had good blood but wasn’t a hunter. I honestly find the second one hard to believe if they were hardcore hunters. Maybe just young. Best way to teach a dog to hunt is to put it with other dogs that know how.
 
BigBore44 said:
She might not have struck out (barked) because there wasn’t anything there.
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Or maybe because she was a great dog and I told her to hush and id give her a treat. Lol. She was younger and yeah supposedly had great blood.


But to the op, these guys lived to bear hunt. They felt the 44 was good to go. Ive killed many whitetail with 44 from handguns. And our whitetail are of the bigger variety. Our Black bear not so much. 400 lbs is a monster bear here. Although where we were hunting and toward the coast where they hunt 700lbs isn't unheard of. There is a big difference in size even in one state.

We have the big deer and they the dog with antler deer. Lol. But the bear are the opposite.
 
Cool.

I'd start the rifle on Trailboss loads and light bullets for him, to target shoot.
Then we can up the bullet weight and performance powder.

I was raised on lever actions (still use) and want to do the same for him. In my book they are safe actions. You can visually see the hammer position and that it's on safe-cock. The hammer only gets thumbed back when your ready to shoot. And gently put back to safe while barrel pointing down away from you in safe direction. They are reliable and don't have a gas requirement to operate.

They are part of our American Heritage.
 
I'd run my 348win as a backup on bear sites (along with him anyways as a youngster)

I'm not crazy about bear hunting, but there are a lot of them where we are and I believe population management is important in some ways. For example I think they eat a lot of the whitetail fawns and there is a VERY low population of deer in the area. I've hunted there for years and only get a trail cam pic of deer once in a blue moon. Never seen one with my own eyes in this area but see fresh sign and find antler drops. They are wise animals way up north!
 
Both Marlin (post 83) and Mossberg have a safety. The Marlin is an especially safe rifle as the lever must be up fully and the cross bolt safety disengaged and the hammer would have to be full back to fire the rifle. A ND would be difficult as long as use of the CBS is encouraged and the hammer is rested on the half cock detent. I have CBS delete kits for 4 of my Marlins plus several Marlins that are pre CBS. Frankly, regardless of other opinions, I like the daxx CBS and never installed my delete kits. As much as I like my new break-action CVA Scout I am voting for a Marlin 336 or 1894 with the CBS in .30-30 or .44 Mag.
 
I started hunting with a cut down barrel, short Arisaka 7.7, and kilt quite a few deer with it. (my first with a SMLE) Then one day, way back in the day, I told my new wife I really wanted a Ruger Semi-auto .44 mag carbine for my up coming birthday. Being a new wife of course, she went on a quest to get me one.

She went to the local gun store, and informed them of what she wanted. They tried very hard to talk her out of it. Said it was "useless" as a deer rifle. It was "no good". The .44 mag would not kill a deer. But "useless" is what they kept telling her over and over. The little Ruger carbine was useless for hunting deer.

I got a .44 Carbine for my birthday! Wife did not listen to the "men behind the counter" who know it all. She said she almost did. I used that little carbine for the next ten years, and shot many white-tails and mule deer with it. EVERY deer I ever shot with it dropped. Everyone. The Hornady 265 grain .444 Marlin bullet was my bullet of choice.

I kind of moved to muzzle loaders after that, and a P17 was my weapon of choice for a while. Also picked up another 7.7 that was nicely sporterized and used it off and on. It had a much longer barrel than my 7.7 carbine, and I learned about driving .312" bullets too fast. And started collecting SMLE's and using them sometimes. But, no single rifle I own has dropped as many deer as the little Ruger .44 Carbine has.

So...I think...a .44mag rifle...might just work for you. :)
 
Ugly Sauce said:
She went to the local gun store, and informed them of what she wanted. They tried very hard to talk her out of it. Said it was "useless" as a deer rifle. It was "no good". The .44 mag would not kill a deer. But "useless" is what they kept telling her over and over. The little Ruger carbine was useless for hunting deer.
:)
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Where does such foolishness come from? I was told a month ago by some feller with one of those funny looking modern sport rifles in .223 that .30-30 was not enough for deer past 100 yards. I am not sure how many deer I have taken past 200 yards with several Marlin .30-30s and now with the 165 grain FTX and LR ammo it is a solid 250 yard rifle. And this from someone holding a .223/5.56 rifle. What is he going to do, a mag dump on a deer? It would take near three typical .223 rounds to equal one .30-30 170 grain Sierra /: . I am perplexed and when it comes to a .44 Magnum, geeez, at a hundred yards it will still hit like a freight train.

And, I got the same thing when I picked up my new CVA .44 Mag. Like, what are you going to do with that? This in a store featuring 90% modern sporting rifles and tactical products. My response was knock deer over DRT in my backyard because I do not want them running off to the next county. I just got a blank look back. ;)
 
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Depending on what state the OP is in he may be restricted to straight walled cartridges like we are in Ohio. I have a marlin 1894 in .44mag and it's been a great rifle my son killed his first deer with it at 11 and my daughter also killed her first with that rifle. If you reload the possibilities to load up soft recoiling cheap cast loads all summer then when the young shooter has plenty of confidence you can work into something to go hunting with. One thing is for sure it beats the heck out of the smooth bore shotguns I started with.
 
98s1lightning said:
I'd run my 348win as a backup on bear sites (along with him anyways as a youngster)

I'm not crazy about bear hunting, but there are a lot of them where we are and I believe population management is important in some ways. For example I think they eat a lot of the whitetail fawns and there is a VERY low population of deer in the area. I've hunted there for years and only get a trail cam pic of deer once in a blue moon. Never seen one with my own eyes in this area but see fresh sign and find antler drops. They are wise animals way up north!
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I only got 1 deer in RI growing up and that was in Woody Hill with a 12GA slug. never saw a bear, but I was on the coast (Westerly/Watch Hill). We mostly hunted grouse, woodcock, and ducks/geese on the salt ponds. Back then (and I think still) RI doesn't allow rifles for deer, only archery and MLs. We did most of our deer hunting in CT on the farms we chuck hunted on, CT allowed rifles on private land then.

My sister had a win Lever in .44mag that she used in upstate NY (Gouverneur) we she and her husband had a dairy farm. She used hers on drives in the heavy wooded areas and it worked.

When I picked out a rifle for my then 12 year old I went a different route by getting a Rem M7 in .260 which for the 1st couple years I loaded as a light ,243 with 100grn BTs. Soft shooting load and he killed a couple with it out to 150 yrds. Now it's loaded full up with 120s.
 
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98s1lightning said:
I'm considering a 20" rifle in 44 mag for my son as HIS first rifle, though we will start him on less recoiling rifles before he gets to IT. (I remember trying a 44 semi rifle as a 10yr old to 12yr old and disliking the recoil.)

I've never hunted with/or knew anyone to shoot deer with a 44 rifle.

How's it performing for you guys who use one?
Click to expand...

I've killed a lot of deer with 44 magnum revolvers. it works

...but I would find something with less recoil for a a kid to shoot

If your son is 6' tall, go for it.
 
I had a 44mag handy rifle scoped. it was at best a 2inch group at 100 yds. I tried factory loads , my custom hand loads it was just not a tight grouping rifle. it had a rainbow trajectory out passed 100 yds. I did kill several deer with it and the fellow i sold it too has killed a couple of deer. It is a very adequate deer caliber at 100yds or less.

If I were buying a rifle for a young hunter i would go with something in the 243,260,6.5, 7mm 08 range. I would prefer at least a 120 -140 gr bullet. Low recoil cartridges are made for 7mm08 and maybe other calibers. Just my 2 cents.

Bull
 
Chuck R. said:
I only got 1 deer in RI growing up and that was in Woody Hill with a 12GA slug. never saw a bear, but I was on the coast (Westerly/Watch Hill). We mostly hunted grouse, woodcock, and ducks/geese on the salt ponds. Back then (and I think still) RI doesn't allow rifles for deer, only archery and MLs. We did most of our deer hunting in CT on the farms we chuck hunted on, CT allowed rifles on private land then.

My sister had a win Lever in .44mag that she used in upstate NY (Gouverneur) we she and her husband had a dairy farm. She used hers on drives in the heavy wooded areas and it worked.

When I picked out a rifle for my then 12 year old I went a different route by getting a Rem M7 in .260 which for the 1st couple years I loaded as a light ,243 with 100grn BTs. Soft shooting load and he killed a couple with it out to 150 yrds. Now it's loaded full up with 120s.
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I hunt up in the Bangor, Maine area is where I'm talkin about using the 44 lever for the kid.
 
I just remembered, I shot my first buck with that little Ruger Carbine. Used to be very easy to draw a doe tag, and when they first opened ML hunting, you could get a ML tag (either sex) plus a modern tag/license. So, I had taken a few deer, but never had a reason to shoot a buck really. I miss using that rifle, probably should take it hiking/trekking/exploring/map-n-compass stuff. It's extremely light, and not much is going to get past five .44 mags if I should need it to perform any pacification duties.
 
98s1lightning said:
I'm considering a 20" rifle in 44 mag for my son as HIS first rifle, though we will start him on less recoiling rifles before he gets to IT. (I remember trying a 44 semi rifle as a 10yr old to 12yr old and disliking the recoil.) I've never hunted with/or knew anyone to shoot deer with a 44 rifle. How's it performing for you guys who use one?
Click to expand...

We had a bunch of deer, bucks and does, harvested this year with .44 Mag rifles in my state. The state reduced the deer hunting restrictions and allowed for straight walled cartridges in rifles where for many decades it's only been bow, muzzleloader, and shotgun. I looked for a .44 mag rifle, but none could be found at the time I was lookin' to buy for under $800, so I ended up with an upper for my AR in .450 Bushmaster. I will most likely get a single-shot CVA in .44 mag in the next few months.

As other folks have pointed out..., it was probably the stock (and maybe even the metal butt plate) on a lot of the .44 Mag rifles like the Ruger M44 or the Ruger M96 that caused folks to find the recoil a problem. A lot of the "Cowboy" lever rifles also had/have a metal butt plate. For a kid a nice recoil reducing pad and a properly fitting stock should mitigate a lot of the perceived recoil. (Heck I like a nice recoil pad too)

LD
 
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