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Does a gun in the home make your house safer?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by natedog, Feb 20, 2004.

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  1. natedog

    natedog Member

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    Does a gun in the home make you house safer?

    "Does a Gun in the Home Make You Safer?

    No. Despite claims by the National Rifle Association (NRA) that you need a gun in your home to protect yourself and your family, public health research demonstrates that the person most likely to shoot you or a family member with a gun already has the keys to your house. Simply put: guns kept in the home for self-protection are more often used to kill somebody you know than to kill in self-defense; 22 times more likely, according to a 1998 study by the Journal of Trauma.[1] More kids, teenagers and adult family members are dying from firearms in their own home than criminal intruders. When someone is home, a gun is used for protection in fewer than two percent of home invasion crimes.[2] You may be surprised to know that, in 1999, according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, there were only 154 justifiable homicides committed by private citizens with a firearm compared with a total of 8,259 firearm murders in the United States. Once a bullet leaves a gun, who is to say that it will stop only a criminal and not a family member? Yet at every opportunity the NRA uses the fear of crime to promote the need for ordinary citizens to keep guns in their home for self-protection. Furthermore, the NRA continues to oppose life-saving measures that require safe-storage of guns in the home."


    Taken from the Brady Campaign website. Wasn't the first "fact" taken from a study that only considered the instances where a criminal was killed as self defense? Also, I believe that that study was taken only on a limited basis in one neighborhood in Seattle. Perhaps I've gotten my facts mixed up, could someone point me in the right direction?
     
  2. TechBrute

    TechBrute Member

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    What the <explitive> are they talking about? Are they referring to the <explitive> trigger locks that are <explitive> <explitive> worthless? Can these <explitives> hear themselves?
     
  3. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    I agree up to a point. Guns don't necessarily make you safer.

    Now with the proper mindset and some training, it will.
     
  4. hipeflip

    hipeflip Member

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    There is two real big problems with this argument. The first is that a correlation cannot imply causation. To put that plainly, just because some criminal that shoots someone has a gun in his house does not mean that having a gun in your house will make you go kill someone. Second, killing someone is not the only way to defend yourself with a gun. I mean we are trained to shoot until the threat ceases right? Its not about killing someone its about stopping them from killing you.
    Personally, I have a gun in my house and I have it here for self-defense. If someone breaks into my house and endangers my family I will shoot them until they stop endangering my family. I dont want to kill them because I am not a murderer. Still, if the act of my shooting them results in their death that is not my responsibility. By breaking into my home and endagering my family they are endangering their own lives.
    If someone can read that (^) and tell me that by being willing to protect my family at all costs I am more likely to kill my family or someone I know they have some out of this world logic. I can gather infromation that will correllate owning a car and dying in an accident that DOES NOT mean that by owning a car you are going to die in an accident.
     
  5. mete

    mete Member

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    Many of the "facts " out there have been twisted around to suit the agenda. However a gun is not a magic wand "it" can't do anything as it is an inanimate object. But a gun with an owner who has had proper training , and one who has the proper mindset can be a potent defence tool.Read the recent posting about the 13 year old who protected his family.
     
  6. standingbear

    standingbear Member

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    no...BUT..a gun and a dog do:D
     
  7. Crazy

    Crazy Member

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    What this pseudo-factual discussion is missing is all of the crimes prevented. Gee, think that counts?
    Crazy
     
  8. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Of course not! The firearm is merely an inert mechanical device. One needs to understand how to employ the weapon in a fight!

    Knowledge and wisom will make you safer, not possession alone.:)
     
  9. Dave R

    Dave R Member

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    Yes, a gun in the home makes you safer (if properly used). Didn't these people read any of the articles Drizzt posts? How many home invasions have been thwarted because the homeowner had the MEANS to resist?

    Hmmm, I also wonder which way they count it when an abusive husband finds out the hard way that his formerly unprotected wife found the means to protect herself from his abuse? I think they would count that as "someone who already has the key using a gun against you", rather than someone who saves their life from an attacker.
     
  10. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    * More Guns, Less Crime by John Lott
     
  11. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

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    "Does a Gun in the Home Make You Safer?


    Break in my home and find out:D




    Rule number one.

    Everything the anti gun bunch says is bull****.


    Rule number two.

    See rule number one.
     
  12. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    If the occupants of the home are well trained and
    well equipped with QUALITY firearms, I tend to
    think it makes the whole household a lot safer!

    As another poster previously said, "Break Into My
    House And Find Out For Yourself"! Rest assured,
    that we will be up to the challenge.

    Best Wishes,
    Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
     
  13. Renegade

    Renegade Member

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    Having a gun in the home, doesn't make the home safer, ME having the gun in MY hand makes my home safer.

    Later,
    Dave
     
  14. Travis McGee

    Travis McGee Member

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    Oh come on, everybody knows that only trained, responsible government agents really need firearms. You know, the ATF, FBI, SS, etc.

    / sarcasm
     
  15. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Renegade has it. El Tejon certainly does. The NRA and Brady folks do not.

    A gun in the home does NOT make a home safer in any manner. Whatever dangers come to the home will still come. Some dangers may be able to be eradicated at some point with the help of the gun, but AFTER endangerment to the occupants. To make a home safer, you have to prevent the dangers from getting into the home first and without having to endanger yourself to engage the threat.
     
  16. nygunguy

    nygunguy Member

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    The Uniform Crime Report

    They're getting their numbers from the reports available to anyone with a browser.

    Here's the link for the 1999 Report: 1999 Uniform Crime Report . See tables 2.10 and 2.17 for their sources.

    Then go to table 2.13 and notice that there were 79 total muders during a burglary and 35 of them were by firearms.

    It seems to me that:

    1. The burglary data is what we need to focus on. That means 79 incidences of murder. The 8,259 number is bogus beyond comprehension with respect to home defense.
    2. The 154 number for ALL non-LEO justifiable homicides. They don't specify which ones occured during a burglary. If you believe the NRA 's Armed Citizen report then you have to belive that a fair number of these are during burgalries or home invasions. If you use 2 the ratio is .0253 (79/2). The ration for the total is .0186 (154/8259).
    3. They (the Brady's) don't take into account all of the circumstances surrounding murders that are in the UCR - at least publically.
    4. The idea of having a firearm is not to kill an intruder but to prevent or stop an intrusion. They won't/don't take into account the non-homicidal uses of firearms for home defense or any defense for that matter. They only report the numbers that they can spin.
      [/list=1]


      It's too bad that the general public will eat up the Brady statistics, but will never read the Uniform Crime Reports themselves. Ever wonder why the antis never provide links to their sources?
     
  17. HBK

    HBK member

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    Their position if basically based on lies. :rolleyes:
     
  18. Fred Thompson

    Fred Thompson Member

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    nygunguy,

    the general public, for the most part, doesn't have the attention span required to go thru statistics. They like everything spoon fed to them, in small doses so they doen't get bored.

    Pure and simple fact is, having a gun in the home has saved a lot of people, even if it was never fired...
     
  19. labgrade

    labgrade Member In Memoriam

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    "22 times more likely, ... "

    Used to be 43 times more likely .... what's changed?
     
  20. Delmar

    Delmar Member

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    They are either pushin daisies, walking with a limp, or still running for their lives:what:

    Oh, and for standingbear, they have a set of K-nines firmly attached to their husty-dusty:neener:
     
  21. Atticus

    Atticus Member

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    That argument makes no sense whatsoever.
    The vast majority of child abusers are known to the child - so is defending the child from known persons pointless?
    If an abusive spouse decided to kill his/her mate- is defense unjustified? Can lethal defense only be justified against strangers who have to break into your home? Absolute BS
     
  22. TamThompson

    TamThompson Member

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    I think this is the often-cited study that was based on erroneous statistics. It came under so much criticism that the guy who conducted it went back and re-did the math and issued a correction, I seem to recall, which said the actual figure was something like "2 times more likely." Even then, there was some faulty logic.
     
  23. Arc Angel

    Arc Angel Member

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    :p IMO, the presence of a firearm in the home does not necessarily make a family safer! It's very important to, also, know how to: store, carry, and use firearms. Even different firearms, themselves, may require different methods of storage or use with which the owner(s) must be familiar: e.g., I won't keep any Glock pistol loaded with a round in the chamber inside my home - and I carry a Glock Model 21! Moreover, if you keep a firearm hanging over the fireplace, is it operational? (It shouldn't be.)

    If we had children at home, there would be functional locks on all firearm storage units; and all ammo would be stored far away from the guns, themselves, and locked up, too. Yes, I've, also, used trigger locks; and I agree with the many criticisms I've heard: They are worthless and may, even, be dangerous to employ.

    Personally, I feel a whole lot safer with, both, my gun(s) and my Pit Bulldog. It might interest some shooters to know that the one time in my life that I needed to use a gun in my home, I didn't have one available; and it turned out to be my bulldog that saved me - go figure! ;)
     
  24. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    What they are saying is that families are dangerous to your health.
     
  25. fix

    fix Member

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    The mere presence of the firearm does not make the home any more or less safe. It has the potential to do either, depending on the owner.
     
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