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Does a gun take 600 rounds to break in?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by the_skunk, Mar 13, 2011.

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  1. the_skunk

    the_skunk Member

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    I bought a new Sig P232 and when I called the Sig service center about jamming, I was told that 600 rounds will 'Break the gun in'.

    I don't get it? If the tollerances are correct, why any break in at all. Maybe the springs need a break-in period?
     
  2. bargainshop@coxinet.net

    bargainshop@coxinet.net Member

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    When i got my first sig i thought the mag all the way in , then i discoverd by pushing up on the bottom of the mag it went click no more problems.
    after market mag can be a real promlem.
     
  3. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Break in is a philosophical/psychological phenomena. Just how many rounds do you need to go down range before you trust the thing?

    As for your jamming, could be your ammo, could be your magazines, don’t know what you are using on either. Don’t know what type of jam you are having. Your post is sort of like “I am having car problems, what should I do?”. There are a million and one car problems to pick from so you are not going to get a specific answer.

    If you are using factory magazines and using factory ammunition then the Customer Service representative you talked to is stupider than bag of hammers. No factory new gun should be jamming, whatever your jams are, with factory magazines and quality ammunition.

    Old military surplus, reloads, and AMERC ammunition are not valid ammunition types to evaluate reliability.
     
  4. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    About three years ago, a good friend of mine asked for suggestions for a HD handgun. I took him to the range with several of my revolvers and my 5''Colt Government. He took a shining to the 1911 and within a month bought one of his own. It was not a Colt, but a well known $1200 clone. First time out, it jammed on every mag. I rode with him the 40 miles to take it back to the dealer he bought it from. First thing the dealer asked was whether or not he had put 500 rounds thru it. Said the factory would not accept it back til then. Three years later he still hasn't put 500 rounds thru it cause it frustrates him so every time he takes it to the range. I sometimes wonder if this is the reason some manufacturers require this, knowing full well most owners will trade it off before or never will fire 500 rounds thru them. I suggested to my friend he take it to a good smith to have it looked at knowing that it would be cheaper for a good smith to make it reliable than to put $175-$200 worth of ammo thru it, and find out it still don't work.
     
  5. gym

    gym member

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    The dealer is blowing smoke you know where. All firing 300 or whatever the number is, is polishing the internals, and seating all of the parts. On a pistol over $1000.00, that should already be done by the manufacturer before releasing the firearm.
    If the gun doesn't fire, you have evrery right to ask for either a refund or a new gun. I don't know what state you live in, but most states like mine give you 3 days to return anything for any reason. I know this because I owned health club.
    They don't even have to give you a reason, it's the law. you never listen to salesmen on issues like this. You go right to the state.
    Also if you post a complaint on the better business bureau's website in the locale, he is in. You will be surprised how quicklly his attitude will change. I have used it myself twice, with a tv and on a plumber who re -did my kitchen, and refused to come back to instal an allen screw that held on the faucet. Basically he told me to f off, after 8 grand in plumbing work.
    Don't allow people to bully you, if I wanted to spend another few hundred dollars before being able to fire this gun, I would not have Purchased it, that's your stance. I hate bullies, when I got through with brandsmart, I became best friends with the VP. She fired a whole bunch of people and told me they spent 4 thousand dollars repairing a 1,500 dollar tv. People can be very stubborn and stupid. I ended up with a Gift certificate for a new TV after it broke a second time with 8 trips and 6 months without my TV.
    Don't let people push you around, explain your intentions and offer him the oppertunity to make amends. Let him know that once it starts, it's on. And you will put your experience with him all over the internet, facebook etc, you have weapons you aren't using in this fight.
    As a few guys mentioned the firing process can be set aside by using the proper polishing compound on the rails and the feed ramp, also the firing mechanism where the top round hits the slide from the mag. I would be happy to help you any time if you PM me, after hundreds of pistols, I can pretty much tell you where to look and how far yo go. That is all that firing thr rounds is doing, just removing high spots burs etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  6. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    Only Kimbers (well, 500 rounds is there magic number).
     
  7. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    I've acquired several new pistols for both personal and professional use and never had one that needed hundreds of rounds ran thru it to "break it in" in order to make it reliable. If I ever get a new gun that is a jam-o-matic, the manufacturer better make it right on their dime. If not, that will be the last one of that brand for me and I'll spend plenty of time telling others of my experience with said brand.
     
  8. trex1310

    trex1310 Member

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    I bought a new Sig P229 Equinox that would not fire a complete magazine without jamming. I got the "pistol needs to be fired x rounds to break it in" story. My reply was why can you buy a $500 Beretta or Springfield XD that doesn't jam at all from the get go. If it needs to be fired 500 rounds, let Sig fire (and buy) 500 rounds of ammo before they sell the (8&^% gun to the public. I did the only logical thing, I traded it in and will never buy another one. When my life depends on something, I want it to work out of the box,no excuses.
     
  9. JerryM

    JerryM Member

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    If I were considering a gun, and was told it would take 500 rounds to break it in I would not buy it.
    Some maintain that you should use at least 200 rounds or your carry ammo to be sure the gun is reliable with that load.

    If you consider the cost of ammo, and especially premium ammo you could be talking about several hundred dollars just to make sure the gun works. When I have purchased a new gun, if it malfunctions within the fi9rst 100 rounds of range ammo I send it back.

    I have not noticed Glocks require that sort of break in. The 1911 seems to be the most likely to need such a break in, but that is not acceptable to me. I send it back with the factory paying the tab for shipping.

    Regards,
    Jerrry
     
  10. ridgerunner1965

    ridgerunner1965 Member

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    honestly, ive had guns like that and they went down the road.if a gun aint working from the factory it gets fixed or goes down the road.these are high dollar guns yu guys are talkin about.id expect them to operate correctly.if i put 500 rnds thru a gun and it still wasnt workin it would be down the road. i can buy 200$ norinco 9mm that will function every time
     
  11. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    Both my all-metal 9's ran better after a couple of hundred rounds. That's all I know.
     
  12. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    When I got my CZ P-01, I took it straight to the range, with the factory goop still on it. It worked perfectly, and ever since then, too. I can't remember anyone bringing back a SiG for "break in" issues when I worked at a gunshop 10 years ago, it would have been un heard of.
     
  13. the_skunk

    the_skunk Member

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    Ain't that the truth


    The gun is brand new, it jammed out of the box, and the ammo was Federal ball nose. I sent the gun back, and the said everything was 'Okie Dokie' .... it jammed again, and now the claim is 'limp wristing'.
     
  14. the_skunk

    the_skunk Member

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    My exact thoughts. You take a Colt 45 and it gets expensive for ammo.
     
  15. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    All firearms "break-in" as they are fired. Kimber is the only 1911 manufacturer I am aware of that suggests a break-in to "fix" problems.
     
  16. the_skunk

    the_skunk Member

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    I spent $700 on the Sig P232, and was told this is what SWAT and police use as a back-up. The basic design is a 1929 Walther PPK, then Makarov, CZ-83, Bersa, etc. All told there have been 10 million of this exact design.

    What really happened was today's Sig Sauer pistols are made in a CNC machining center with 100 tools. The breech face of this gun was probably breaking 'Tool # 64' and the Sig factory decided to let the extractor just flip the empty shell out.

    You can pick up a CZ-83 surplus for $220, and it's 3 times the gun that the Sig is. My jams are a double feed and the Sig P232 has no slide lock, now unjamming that is a three handed job.
     
  17. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    When I get a new autopistol, I tear it down, lube it, and then hand cycle it a few hundred times. I then tear it down again, clean it, and re-lube. Never had any break-in issues.
     
  18. Larry E

    Larry E Member

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    I've got two Kimbers a 5" and 4 ¼", and they both worked fine out of the box, with my handloads since I only shoot them. The short model became balky after about 500 or 600 rounds due to a sacked recoil spring (common with short barrel 1911's I've heard). Replaced the recoil spring with one from IMSI, and it works fine now, but only likes 230 gr loads. Fine with me.

    Got a Ruger P345 that had a problem, got sent back and repaired, shipping paid both ways, and that was after I told them that it had been fired with handloads. There was something wrong in the machining of the firing pin tunnel in the slide I think, but they didn't exactly say.

    A service weapon should not need 500 or 600 rounds to "break in".
     
  19. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    There is always a lot of confusion at THR regarding gun break-in.

    First, gun break in is not the same as function testing to make sure your gun is reliable enough to carry. Everyone should shoot a new gun thoroughly to make sure it works properly. This applies to new and used guns.

    Function testing and gun break in may overlap, however.

    The purpose though of gun break in is to smooth out the operation of a gun. Break in will not cause a gun that is a total jam-o-matic to become functional. If the gun is choking every round, or every few rounds, when new, then you have a problem with the gun that will likely require more than simply shooting it a few hundred rounds. Break in will smooth up gun function, but won't fix fundamental errors with parts or assembly. Metal surfaces mate, slick up, and the gun runs smoother after it is broken in. Certain brands seem to require this more than others, but that would be another thread.

    Then we come to the concept of "break in" as defined by some gun manufacturers, most prominently Kimber. If you get a new Kimber, and it jams every few rounds, call Kimber's Customer Service Department (an oxymoron by the way), and they will tell you to shoot the gun 500 times (which at today's ammo prices will burn up about $200 bucks of ammo). They will try to convince you that will fix the problem, but of course it likely won't.
     
  20. Weevil

    Weevil Member

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    About the only problem I've ever seen get better by shooting is failure to go fully into battery.

    I've had a few, mostly 1911 types, that would hang up just short of going into battery especially after getting warmed up. Shooting them and keeping them lubed up always cured this.

    Failure to feed or eject problems never seem to cure themselves no matter how many rounds you shoot. Something is out of spec or incorrect and just shooting it isn't going to change that.


    I got a Glock 26 yesterday morning and I put a little over 250 rounds through it yesterday and today. No problems at all straight from the box.

    That's what I want to see out of a gun I'm going to use for carry purposes, boringly reliable.


    It's tough to have confidence in a gun that chokes and stumbles right out of the gate.
     
  21. FC

    FC Member

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    Double feeding is a magazine problem, try a new magazine.
     
  22. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Have you let other people shoot the gun to make sure its not you?

    What? :rolleyes:

    Actually, it does. Its internal and you can reach in the ejection port with your pinky while holding the slide open, and lock it if needed, even with a double feed.

    Have you tried another mag? Are they still coming with two? If so, does it do it with both mags?
     
  23. Cop Bob

    Cop Bob Member

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    When setting up new build match 1911's I put them together fairly tight, also used the same method to fix snug factory slide to frame rail fits.

    Disassemble the gun, small paintbrush with a dab of fine valve grinding compound inside the frame rails, and work it back n forth, till it begins to act right. Clean the compound off the rails and reassemble. You may have to do this several times, a little bit at a time. even the fine compounds will cut pretty quick if the alloys are soft, and they vary from Mfg to Mfg.

    Only takes a few minutes and it will duplicate the actions of a few hundred rounds in a hurry.. careful not to OVERDO it..

    A side note, for duty weapons, where sub MOA is not the goal, dependability is, Mine all rattle a little bit when you shake em, its the sound of dependability.. and with the right barrel bushing and rear lug lock up, they will still drill pretty tight. and they will feed empties.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  24. RimfireChris

    RimfireChris Member

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    I've heard both sides over the years, and from what I've experienced, it depends on the gun. I've noticed that blowback pistols and some .22 rifles do seem to run better after a couple hundred rounds, but even still they weren't having major problems to begin with.
     
  25. bruzer

    bruzer Member

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    I don't have the answer but this makes me think. I do believe a gun should work flawlessly from day one. But a gun is also like a tool or piece of machinery. A car's engine requires a "break in" period. My adjustable wrench was not very smooth when new, now works perfectly. There are many other examples but we do look at guns much differently because our life may depend on them.
    Good luck and if you need help "breaking in" your gun, I'll help. I'll even bring my own ammo.
    Mike
     
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