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Does a mail order gunsmith have to be an FFL?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Sniper X, Feb 15, 2011.

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  1. Sniper X

    Sniper X Member

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    Or can someone just do work on other's guns without having a FFL?

    thanks!

    Kev
     
  2. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    It might have changed, but there used to be a special class FFL for gunsmiths to receive and retain your gun overnight to perform work on it
     
  3. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    It depends on their residency and whether or not they are "in the business" of repairing firearms.

    If I am in the same state of residence as you, and you like the night sights on one of my guns, and want me to put night sights on your gun - you can give your gun to me, and I can do it for you, so long as I don't make a livelihood from the profit (if any) of doing so. All without an FFL.

    If we are residents of different states and you are going to leave your gun with me, or ship it to me, then I would have to have an FFL to receive your gun from out of state. Now, if we were in different states, and you wanted me to do something on your gun while you waited for it, then the paragraph above would apply.

    If I am going to make a business of working on guns, or if I am going to receive/ship guns interstate, then an FFL is required.

    Not if both parties are residents of the same state and the "gunsmithing" is only a hobby and not a business.
     
  4. Sniper X

    Sniper X Member

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    Thanks, this is what I thought. I hope the special use law still applies.
     
  5. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    ??? :confused: ???
     
  6. Sniper X

    Sniper X Member

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    NavyLt, the one 9mm e refered to. I remember hearing about that law. Don't know if it was BS though!
     
  7. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    There are no "special classes" of FFL. 9mmepiphany is either misremembering or confused on this.

    To receive firearms for repair or from out of state, you must have some form of FFL that isn't a Type 3 (curio and relic). There are no "repair only" FFLs.
     
  8. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    ^^^^Only if the repair is done as a course of business (in most states anyway). If my next door neighbor wants me to put night sights on his gun for him, because I have put them on my gun, it is perfectly legal for him to give me his gun, leave it with me for a few days, I put the night sights on for him, and give him his gun back, so long as I am not enganging in the business of repairing firearms and, since he is my next door neighbor, I know he lives in the same state that I do.

    In most states, he could also ship the gun to me, as same state residents.
     
  9. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    You're slipping, NavyLT. You're usually the one that keeps folks up on the latest "interpretations" by the revenuers.

    Their current "interpretation" of the law says that if you do any work on a gun (painting, installing sights, or any other), you require a FFL to do it, no matter if the gun comes from your neighbor or another state.
     
  10. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    nalioth,

    Please post a citation. The law is very clear:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html

    18 USC 921:

    I think maybe you are concentrating on the act itself; whereas I am referring to the frequency and purpose of such acts. If the frequency is occasional, and the purpose is NOT as a principal objective of livelihood and profit, no license is required.
     
  11. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Okay, now you're being logical. We know what the law says. It's the revenuers that "interpret" it in ways that please the current administration.

    Sorry I can't supply a citation. As I constantly lament, I read voraciously, but unfortunately cannot remember every URL where I've read something. I can't believe I'm the only person that read that, though.
     
  12. karlsgunbunker

    karlsgunbunker Member

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    You need an 01FFL for Gunsmithing.
    You maybe able to use other types but if you are just a Gunsmith it's an 01.
     
  13. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    If someone as a favor helps out a friend or neighbor with fixing a problem with his gun, that shouldn't require a license.

    OTOH the OP's post:
    implies that the person is referring to himself as a "gunsmith", will very likely be advertising his services, will receive shipped firearms, keep them overnight, and accept payment for his services. That will require a Type 01 license.
     
  14. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Be aware that some types of "gunsmithing" will require an 07FFL (Manufacturer) rather than the more common 01FFL (Dealer).
     
  15. swinokur

    swinokur Member

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    FFL License types
     
  16. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    The repair person has to have an FFL. The shipper doesn't

    For instance, you Smith breaks...you box it up and fed ex it to them and they fix it...maybe...and then they ship it back to you directly.

    Just talked to Colt about a reblue 2 days ago. That is what they told me.
     
  17. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    That is correct IF you are sending the gun to an FFL, and the FFL is going to do the repair/modification/replacement. However, in the OP's case, he is sending the gun to an FFL for the purposes of transferring that gun to an unlicensed person. Since it isn't the FFL doing the repair/replacement/modification themselves, they are only doing a transfer, the gun must come back to an FFL for the subsequent transfer back to the OP. And this is only because the gun is going out of state.
     
  18. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    I stand corrected
     
  19. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    You did not post anything that was incorrect :D
     
  20. swinokur

    swinokur Member

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    wow. now there's something you don't see everyday.

    :evil:
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  21. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    The OP asked about a "mail order" gunsmith, that is, one who works on guns, but has no shop open to the public. There are a number of specialist gunsmiths who do exactly that and yes, they need an FFL.

    As to "occasional" work, I don't see how a "mail order" gunsmith could be an "occasional" worker since he would have to advertise, ship and receiver guns, have guns in his shop for periods of time (not work on a "while you wait" basis), keep an FFL book, keep records for income tax purposes, etc., etc. That does not jibe with someone working on a friend's gun once a year or so.

    Jim
     
  22. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    If you search hard enough, you might even find a couple of posts where I said, "I was wrong, thank you for correcting me!" ;)
     
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