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Does anyone dabble in saps or blackjacks?

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by Big_John1961, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. conw

    conw Member

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    I agree with what you're saying about knowing the law and not trusting an off the cuff analysis.
     
  2. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Every now and then this same topic shows up and folks provide their opinions. I still own the two contact weapons that I carried on the street years ago. One is flat slapper, well shaped from where it rested in my back pocket and got sat on a whole lot more than anything else - the other a spring loaded black jack.

    Two thoughts about these kind of weapons. The first is that anyone using one in a conflict risks a felony conviction.... The second is that the few times I personally used one it only raised the level of conflict (the folks I dealt with got very, very angry if hit by one). If you actually do hit someone to take them down hard you really do risk killilng them.... Down here in paradise the first annual MacDuffy riots were a direct result of someone being beaten into submission -that subsequently died from his injuries to the head area... machined metal flashlights were used in the MacDuffy case but the principle is the same......

    I quit carrying them when I learned better tactics and developed the kind of self confidence that only comes from few years in police work. I also had more than a few encounters with folks that had to be physically subdued since the only other recourse would have been to do them such serious injury that you risked killing them. Here I'm talking about crazy or terribly intoxicated aggressive individuals that it might take a few officers to subdue... You haven't lived until you see someone hit in the head with a full stroke by a baton or blackjack and not only are they still standing but they want to get up close and personal as they object to being hit....

    Collect them if you will. Carry or use one and you're getting into very dangerous territory unless you're defending your home from forcible entry....
     
  3. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    I never hit anyone in the head. A good slap to the clavicle, elbow, wrist was all I needed.
     
  4. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Metal flash lights and batons swung by amped up multiple officers certainly can be deadly and not advisable.
    Back in the less amped up officer days, and when my Uncle was an NYPD Gold Shield dick the beavertail sap was usually applied with a moderate and experentially aimed blow with the flat aimed at the lower back of head, if possible , and delivered by surprise surreptitiously ! If tht didn't work and things got combative it was aimed full force where ever you could get a hit, like ,elbows forearms, groin, face ect. The jack is much more effective for non head hits BTW and was carried for those that preferred such tactics.
    I don't carry a sap anymore. The penalties for a slip up with a .45 are less in this state so it is a no brainer for me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
  5. sidheshooter

    sidheshooter Member

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    As an aside, I see that the most recent issue of tac knives (march2013!) has a brief article on saps, as well as the custom coin purse variation, FWIW.

    The article does go on to mention the temple (!) as one of the preferred target locations, which strikes me (no pun intended) as dangerously close to recklessly irresponsible, but it's worth a quick look if you find yourself killing time inside a borders or barnes & noble on black Friday...
     
  6. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

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  7. conw

    conw Member

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    Totally agree Owen.

    As to whether or not to hit the head, or if it's irresponsible... I feel that's kind of a situational question. It's no more irresponsible to whack someone in the head than shoot them in a given situation. The tactics are determined by the situation, and in some situations, the sap or another impact weapon employed as lethal force can make more sense than the gun.
     
  8. Big_John1961

    Big_John1961 Member

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
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