Does anyone know the reasoning behind denying ccp to

[Brutuskend]

Someone who got a dishonarable discharge from the service?

I got an honourable so it dosen't really apply to me, but I noticed the stipulation when I was filling out the paper work for my ccp. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it can also keep you from even owning a firearm?

I don't see the conection, can anyone explain this?

Yup I just checked, you can't own a fire arm. Seems strange to me.

 

[jmorris]

What does it take to get a dishonorable discharge?

If it’s something that is greater than a minor misdemeanor crime, that would be the reason.

In my State you can have a class C misdemeanor (parking/speeding ticket, etc) and still get one. An “A or B” misdemeanor would have to be at least 5 years old and a felony on your record = never and stops one in their tracks at 21. on a 4473.

 

[Brutuskend]

Yea, having never gotten one, I have no idea. But having been in the service and knowing a little about the UCMJ, I know that if the powers that be REALLY want to get you bad enough there is usually a way to do it.

Ever see "Catch 22"?

I think in the Marines they called it artical 134,
which basically say's " covers everything not covered."

 

[AlexanderA]

18 U.S.C. section 922(d)(6) prohibits the sale of a firearm or ammunition to such an individual. Section 922(g)(6) prohibits such a person from possessing "in or affecting commerce" a firearm or ammunition. So it makes sense for a person who cannot legally possess a gun not to be eligible for a permit to carry one.

Carry permits are a matter of state law rather than federal law, but the state law is obviously framed with a view of the federal law.

 

[jmorris]

The important stuff, in regards to your topic might be in red below.

 

[Brutuskend]

So, you gotta screw up pretty bad I guess. And I assume you have to commit a felony to get a DD.

Edit: Thanks all!

I guess all the threats they made back in the day made me parinoid. I was once told I could be charged for getting sun burned.
Malingering and distruction of government property!

 

[Sistema1927]

Types of military discharges:

Honorable
General
Other Than Honorable
Bad Conduct
Dishonorable

The last two are the result of court martial. You can view a Bad Conduct (BCD) as the UCMJ equivalent of a misdemeanor, and the Dishonorable (DD) as a felony.

 

[RickD427]

Types of military discharges:

Honorable
General
Other Than Honorable
Bad Conduct
Dishonorable

The last two are the result of court martial. You can view a Bad Conduct (BCD) as the UCMJ equivalent of a misdemeanor, and the Dishonorable (DD) as a felony.

The military justice system doesn't translate very well to the civilian justice system. A Dishonorable Discharge is quite a serious sanction and can only be awarded by a General Courts Martial and can only be awarded to enlisted members. In practical terms, you have to commit a very serious felony in order to receive one. Most lesser felonies will result in a BCD. A Summary Courts Martial and a Special Courts Martial cannot award a Dishonorable Discharge and those lesser courts conduct the majority of military trials.

At the same time, the potential punishments for military offenses vary considerably and the Courts Martial panels have wide latitude to prescribe punishments.

I'll also note that if Admiral Chester Nimitz, a Five Star Admiral, and hero of WWII, were alive today, he would be prohibited from purchasing, or possessing, a firearm because his Court Martial conviction carried a potential sentence of more than one year (Question 21(c) on the Form 4473).

 

[Frank Ettin]

...A Dishonorable Discharge is quite a serious sanction and can only be awarded by a General Courts Martial and can only be awarded to enlisted members. In practical terms, you have to commit a very serious felony in order to receive one. ....

Essentially a Dishonorable Discharge is roughly comparable to a conviction in a civilian court for a felony. And under the Gun Control Act of 1968 a felony conviction also disqualifies one from possessing a gun or ammunition.

This might be a useful reference.

 

[Brutuskend]

Thanks!

 

[Craig_AR]

I was once told I could be charge for getting sun burned.

Yup, I was told the same thing in 1971 at USAF Officer Training School, Medina Annex, Lackland AFB. However, the charge would be non-judicial punishment under UCMJ Article 15 (called Captain's Mast in the Navy), not a court martial offense.

The logic was that negligent self-care resulting in serious sun burn had led you to be unavailable for duty.

 

[RickD427]

Yup, I was told the same thing in 1971 at USAF Officer Training School, Medina Annex, Lackland AFB. However, the charge would be non-judicial punishment under UCMJ Article 15 (called Captain's Mast in the Navy), not a court martial offense.

The logic was that negligent self-care resulting in serious sun burn had led you to be unavailable for duty.

A service member who rendered themselves unfit for duty through negligence could be punished through Non-Judicial Punishment (NJP) under the UCMJ or by a Courts Martial. There is nothing that limits such punishment to NJP only. The command holds the prerogative to decide.

The availability of NJP in the military is quite different from the civilian world. It is often used for purely military offenses, where a civilian would have no criminal liability, but it is also often used to resolve minor criminal matters where the service member has an otherwise good record, or offended as the result of young stupid conduct. NJP produces a military record, but no criminal "Rap Sheet." The difference can be significant. A simple fist fight in California can produce a ten year firearms prohibition if a simple battery conviction came from a civil court, even if no punishment was imposed. The same conduct, when fanged in an NJP proceeding would normally result in the member paying a fine and being "grounded" for a period of time. But there would be no firearms prohibition and no criminal record.

 

[CapnMac]

And the restriction on DD is meant to be punitive, a caution against doing things bad enough to warrant the punishment.
Whether such deterrence actually "works" is grist for a different mill.

 

[test drive]

Just a note on this subject I work for the VA and I have people come in all the time wanting to change their discharge usually they have other than honorable sometimes worse there is a form to send in to department of defense to try and get it changed.it's usually something like AWOL x amount of days or coming up hot on a drug test. They always say the same thing I was young stupid and made a mistake. I understand this and I'm not judging them it was a stupid mistake BUT I think of all the service people myself included that played by the rules and didn't do the stupid mistakes and you just turn over and give these people an honorable discharge is a slap in the face to all the military people that play by the rules.

 

[bdickens]

You gotta really screw up bad to get anything less than an Honorable Discharge.

 

[Brutuskend]

Yup, I was told the same thing in 1971 at USAF Officer Training School, Medina Annex, Lackland AFB. However, the charge would be non-judicial punishment under UCMJ Article 15 (called Captain's Mast in the Navy), not a court martial offense.

The logic was that negligent self-care resulting in serious sun burn had led you to be unavailable for duty.

I went surf fishing with no shirt on, and when my pants got wet, they sagged way down. I ended up with 2nd degree burns from the top of my " cheeks" all the way up. Had to put on my blouse and tough my way through it.

 

[RickD427]

You gotta really screw up bad to get anything less than an Honorable Discharge.

Let's keep in mind that even Major Nidal Hasan (the suspect in the Fort Hood shooting incident) did not receive a "Dishonorable Discharge." He instead received only a "dismissal" from the Army.

 

[Terry G]

In my limited experience of two years active duty and four years with the National Guard, I would say the Army goes to great lengths NOT to give out Dishonorable Discharges. You have to really screw up to get a DD. I only remember one that went that distance and the man refused repeatedly to follow orders to go on patrol and refused to carry a weapon. Since it was a combat zone they made an example of him.

 

[12Bravo20]

Straight from the ATF:

Section 922(g) of the GCA prohibits certain persons from shipping or transporting any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce, or receiving any firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or possessing any firearm in or

affecting commerce. These prohibitions apply to any person who--


(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable

conditions;

Here is a link to the PDF document on the ATF website:

https://www.atf.gov/file/84311/download

 

[Frank Ettin]

Let's keep in mind that even Major Nidal Hasan (the suspect in the Fort Hood shooting incident) did not receive a "Dishonorable Discharge." He instead received only a "dismissal" from the Army.

if you follow the link in my post 9 you’ll get to a pamphlet on military law. On page 7 it discusses the dismissal of an officer from the service and explains that, for an officer, dismissal is the equivalent of a dishonorable discharge.

 

[RickD427]

if you follow the link in my post 9 you’ll get to a pamphlet on military law. On page 7 it discusses the dismissal of an officer from the service and explains that, for an officer, dismissal is the equivalent of a dishonorable discharge.

Frank,

You're quite correct. That is also the same distinction that I had made in Post #8. But my point, which remains, is that a Dishonorable Discharge is quite difficult for a service member to earn and should not be viewed as being overly restrictive to one's right to possess firearms.

But a "Dismissal" is not fully equivalent to a Dishonorable Discharge. There are some legal disabilities attendant to a Dishonorable Discharge that do not apply to a dismissed officer.

 

[Craig_AR]

Major Nidal Hasan (the suspect in the Fort Hood shooting incident) did not receive a "Dishonorable Discharge." He instead received only a "dismissal" from the Army.

Probably due to his conviction at court martial and sentence to death. I am guessing that a discharge of any sort would have relieved the Army of authority to incarcerate and execute; over to our lawyers on that part. As of 2019 he was still on death row in Leavenworth.

 

[RickD427]

Probably due to his conviction at court martial and sentence to death. I am guessing that a discharge of any sort would have relieved the Army of authority to incarcerate and execute; over to our lawyers on that part. As of 2019 he was still on death row in Leavenworth.

No. It's actually as Frank suggested. Major Hasan escaped a Dishonorable Discharge by being an officer. It's not much of an escape because he is still liable to the death sentence.

A Courts Martial is a federal court and once a sentence is issued, the ability to carry out the sentence isn't dependent on the member remaining in the armed forces. In the case of former Major Hasan, he has been dismissed from the Army and is now a civilian, but that doesn't relieve him of his sentence.

 

[Roknstevo]

Just a note on this subject I work for the VA and I have people come in all the time wanting to change their discharge usually they have other than honorable sometimes worse there is a form to send in to department of defense to try and get it changed.it's usually something like AWOL x amount of days or coming up hot on a drug test. They always say the same thing I was young stupid and made a mistake. I understand this and I'm not judging them it was a stupid mistake BUT I think of all the service people myself included that played by the rules and didn't do the stupid mistakes and you just turn over and give these people an honorable discharge is a slap in the face to all the military people that play by the rules.

Sort of like allowing convicted felons to vote.

 

[The Last Outlaw]

Here in N.C. you cant get concealed carry if you have anything other than an honorable discharge.