Does anyone use guns4pennies auction site?

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Guns4pennies

No I don't own the site, work for the site, invest in it, or in any other way benefit from it, but the fact is, it's not a scam. You know BEFORE you get involved in it what the risk is. Do you think every raffle is a scam because the people who's tickets didn't get picked didn't win something?

Every time I get involved in an auction there I know there is a good chance I might not win that particular item. I know the risk and it's acceptable to me. Just like every single other person on there has decided. I just know that I play with some extra cash I have and can afford to lose. It's entertaining, and I've gotten some great deals. Yes, I have done much better than most people, but that's because there is skill as well as luck involved.

What it comes down to for me is that as a Sergeant in the Army there is no way I could have afforded to buy all the guns and accessories I've won on there in a traditional manner, and I've enjoyed the whole process. When I'm at the range with something I've won, I really don't care what you think about how I've gotten it.
 
Well Jorg, since you asked so nicely, here is a record of my bids on that auction. The page with the first and last bids on the MR556A1 are blown up so you can see, and the others have 50 bids on each screen, but not all were on that item, since I threw a few on other auctions as well at the same time. I ended up using 473 bids to win that one. I purchased a package of 500 bids for $350, which means each bid cost me $0.70. So that's $331.10 in bids, $241.89 for the item itself, $30 for shipping, and I paid $50 to my local FFL for transfer. That means I got the rifle for a total of $652.99, which you may have noticed is just a tad under retail for this model.

As far as bids on other auctions I haven't won, there have been plenty, way to many to take screen shots to show you. But overall I've won way more than I've paid there. Yes, I know others have lost more, but that's a risk everybody willingly takes. BidsG4P.gif
 
(866) 394-4847 * I've talked to the owner several times when I've won items, and the company is small enough that he always answers their customer service line listed above. He's a good guy, former soldier, and is very personable. If you really think this is a scam, how about giving him a call and actually personally insulting him rather than just calling him a criminal or scam artist in a chat board. Or you may actually learn something and be able to make an informed decision rather than making a snap judgement.*

As it says in hso's tagline, "Try being informed instead of opinionated".
 
"It's entertaining, and I've gotten some great deals."

I have other things to do for entertainment than goof around with hit or miss auctions with wacky rules. If you're happy getting "some great deals" when you get lucky then you are getting your entertainment money's worth.

It's still funny how you showed up here all of a sudden on this topic. And why would I want to talk to the site owner? I don't want anything to do with it. Are y'all related?

John
 
Just so everyone knows, the site requires you to buy "bids" upfront by paying with a charge card. That's right, you pay before you ever get to bid.

Probably non-refundable too from I've just read using Google. I wonder what the minimum is, $300? I'm not curious enough to dive into the site or even register.

Good luck to all of you adventurous folks. I think I'd rather take my chances in Vegas or AC.

John
 
Alright, I tried the site out, at least with the 5 free bids they give you...and really don't see how it's a 'scam'

The bid packages are as follows:
Bids/Cost
30/$29
50/$45
100/$80
200/$150
500/$350
1000/$680

I look at it this way...I'm willing to put just as much into it as I would into a raffle to win that gun. Just like a raffle, if I don't win, I'm still out the money. Only difference is if I DO win it, I have to pay a bit more.

I think it's pretty interesting really, and think I might occasionally purchase a 30bid package and try my luck. And John, you might not like it, but, some people do, and if they want to get involved and try it, what's the harm? It's really no more of a scam than any other type of gambling...the only difference is in this case, the gambling is for one prize and continues til everyone else gives up. Pay your money, take your chances, just like any other type of gambling.

And no, I have no ties to it, if I did, I'd have a heckuva lot more guns by now probably :neener:
 
JohnBT said:
"It's entertaining, and I've gotten some great deals."

I have other things to do for entertainment than goof around with hit or miss auctions with wacky rules. If you're happy getting "some great deals" when you get lucky then you are getting your entertainment money's worth.

It's still funny how you showed up here all of a sudden on this topic. And why would I want to talk to the site owner? I don't want anything to do with it. Are y'all related?

John
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No John, we're not related. I simply thought the spirit of this board was to be informed, and also tend to dislike when people attack someone I consider innocent who isn't there to defend themselves. And as far as just showing up, I've actually been registered here since 2008 reading posts and researching. I don't come on very often, so usually by the time I could have given insight into something, the topic has been posted for awhile and someone else has already given the information, so there has been no reason for me to post. It just so happened that I logged in and saw this when it was still current, and I had relevant info.

And yes, it requires you to buy bids, which is not news to anybody who read my first post, which you were to condescending to read.
 
What were the terms of service? It says "Employer cancelled on 2/20/2011 1:27:11 AM because: "Cancelled by automated program due to time expiration".

There seems to be only two uses for such a program: auction sniping or shill bidding.

It looks like it could be for either at this point.
 
"and really don't see how it's a 'scam'"

Other than being an auction where you have to pay up front? And that the "bids" you buy can expire at some undefined time? You mean other than that? And the bids you make on an item you lose if you don't win that auction? And then you have to buy more bids to keep playing.

Scam is probably not accurate. Preying on the gullible and foolish is more like it.


I see a Trigerhppy registered this June at usacarry.com and posted "It's legit" on the same day - 6/11. I suppose he justs likes supporting them. Uh-huh.

www.usacarry.com/forums/off-topic/18122-cant-real.html
 
I'll gladly grant that it's targeted towards people with more money than sense, as yesterday I watched a beretta 92 climb to 16-17$ which is well higher than the cost for the seller since they sell bids, but I think the problem is many people see it more like an auction, which it hardly is (which is fair enough since they CALL it an auction) I look at it more like an interactive raffle, with each 'bid' equating to a raffle entry. Last one to throw their ticket in, wins.
 
I find it amusing that anytime someone comes up with a business model that finds some new and innovative way to appeal to human greed, they usually make quite a tidy sum.

reinforces my belief that 'T' is for total depravity
 
Let's see, I am on a website where I have done very well, getting guns and accessories I've wanted in a way I can afford....YES, I do like supporting them. I'm also on the Sig forum, S&W forum, ar15.com, saiga-12.com, snipershide.com, and a ton of other chat boards. I don't post much, but when I see someone making a claim I know is false, I'm going to say something. Personally, if you stand by and let people accuse another person of being a criminal when you know they're innocent, and you say nothing, you're pure scum in my opinion.

@kozack6, the terms were a prohibition on using third party bidding software. At the time I didn't like the way the bid buddy was set up and felt it was putting users at a disadvantage, by bidding to early, much like the system on another website called fishnbang still does. When I read through and saw guns4pennies didn't allow me to use software like that in their terms, I cancelled the project.

I like the website, and despite all the other advertising they do, the gun business is still a very personal one and relies heavily on word of mouth. I want them to do well and stay in business, and offer more things, so that I can continue trying to win them. Thus, when I see people making completely unsubstantiated false claims which could hurt the business and possibly cause them to close, I will continue to say something. A ton of other firearm penny auctions have not succeeded for a bunch of different reasons, but this one has been going for almost a year, and I want to keep it that way. People making assertions that it's a scam, besides that act being simply wrong in and of itself, threaten my ability to keep using the site I enjoy. You may not personally like the business model, but every one of us on the site has weighed the pros and cons and decided we want to use it. You don't. Fine, stay the away from it then. But don't call the people running it scammers.
 
trigerhppy said:
A ton of other firearm penny auctions have not succeeded for a bunch of different reasons, but this one has been going for almost a year, and I want to keep it that way.
Click to expand...

A whole year. Wow.



trigerhppy said:
People making assertions that it's a scam, besides that act being simply wrong in and of itself, threaten my ability to keep using the site I enjoy.
Click to expand...
I think the outcome of all of the class action lawsuits against penny auction sites and the inevitable realization by state and local governments that penny auctions aren't auctions, but are in fact a new twist on the numbers racket, will prevent you from using the site you enjoy.


trigerhppy said:
But don't call the people running it scammers.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Don't call them scammers.

Call them racketeers, its more appropriate.
 
Uh-oh, now you've introduced facts into the discussion. :uhoh:

You know their goose is cooked when they resort to name calling. We're scum for disagreeing with them. SCUM.

John
 
"...many people see it more like an auction, which it hardly is (which is fair enough since they CALL it an auction)"

If it's not an auction, and they call it an auction, isn't that deception? False advertising? Lying?
 
Definitely fair enough John, and at this point, I'm bowing out, because while I don't see anything WRONG with it, I'm not exactly a user of it, or a huge advocate, so I really don't see any GOOD reason to debate it.

I'll end my participation by saying that yes, it's a questionable premise, and of questionable integrity. However, I feel that if you choose to participate you should know what you're getting yourself into, and not complain when you lose far more than you wanted to. The way it works seems to be (to me) fairly cut and dry, and a high risk, low chance of gain thing to do, so I probably wont continue, though as I said before, I might try time to time. I definitely wouldn't consider it a scam, but would consider it something that should be re-named/branded to be more accurate to what it is.
 
I'd suggest you work on your reading comprehension and vocabulary John. I said that to know someone was innocent and not defend them would make a person scum, not that you were scum. Now you very well might be, but I never called you such.

Auction: "Common name for several types of sales where the price is neither set nor arrived at by negotiation, but is discovered through the process of competitive and open bidding"

You seem to think that the term "auction" should only be used when it is an open ascending price, aka "English auction", style like ebay or gunbroker. However, there are also Dutch auctions. And sealed bid auctions. And buyout auctions. And scratch auctions. And combinatorial auctions. And bidding fee auctions. That last one is also known as pay per bid auctions, or penny auctions. You see, the addition of a word(s) before AUCTION tells you the TYPE of AUCTION. But they are still all AUCTIONS. Thus, "penny auction" is the correct and socially accepted term.

Sam, if a particular auction is not conducting business honestly, then they deserve to be shut down or sanctioned. I have no problem with that, and have even reported some myself to state attorney generals when I knew they were using improper practices. My problem is people were saying this particular auction is a scam, when it is not. If someone asked about a specific local mechanic would you just immediately say that he commits fraud because it's commonly known that many mechanics are dishonest without knowing anything about this one in particular? It is the same with the penny auction industry: there are good ones and bad ones.

You seem to be rooting for these to be deemed illegal simply because YOU think they're bad, and that the people who WILLINGLY CHOOSE to use them must obviously not realize this or be able to make an intelligent decision on their own. Much like the temperance movement which gave us the failure of prohibition because of course people couldn't decide for themselves whether or not to drink because a specific group decided it was bad and they didn't like it. Or closer to home, all the people that think we shouldn't have certain guns because they think they're bad.
 
This action alleges that Defendants operate illegal Internet gambling websites, by permitting persons to play games of chance for money and/or make a wager upon the result of a game or contest. *snip Every time contestants bid they are playing a game of chance hoping that time will run out before another player bids. Defendants make their money by charging the entry fee and retaining the money from each failed bid. Defendants’ auctions are illegal gambling because, among other things, they charge consideration for a chance to win a prize.
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:scrutiny:
http://pokerati.com/wp-content/uplo..._cgi-bin_show_temp.pl_file8365038-0-23001.pdf
 
Okay, so to clarify what I, along with what a lot of others are probably thinking, I don't use any mechanics because I know how to fix my own cars and don't believe in being fed a cock and bull story explaining why they have to charge hundreds of dollars for a brake problem.

But I'm not willingly going to hand my money to someone(s) who runs these "legal scams." Why is it that you are the only one really sticking up for them? Is it because you're "winning?"
 
You know they've lost the debate when they start trying to explain the definition of the word auction.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

And what's with the name calling? Are you running short of facts to support your side?

John
 
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