Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by vincyr, Mar 29, 2020.
In many cases, using the US Military as a paradigm for "best practices" just doesn't pay the rent.
Also consider an auto with a hammer. Like a 1911.
Then a thumbbreak holster that blocks that hammer. All of the 1911's safeties, AND a thumbbreak holster, if you still feel uncomfortable,........quit and seek psychiatric help.
No way for that hammer to drop.
Yes you're paranoid and no it does not make me uncomfortable.
Guns dont just go off by themselves. Theres a reason so many carry with one in the pipe and so many advocate this practice.
Seek training and/or better understanding.
In the meantime carry your snubby if that makes you more confident, but it really is the same thing.
My P32 takes 2 men and a boy to chamber a round. (Just kidding, but it is probably the hardest pistol that I own to rack.)
I would hate to have to do it in the split second that someone was trying to take my life. On top of that, the P32 cannot be called a pistol with a "hair" trigger.
Rack it up, put it in a decent pocket holster, and forget that it is there until the need arises.
Just saying, LEO’s always carry with one in the chamber, so why wouldn’t you? There are compelling reasons to load your weapon for immediate action rather than having to train and practice additional movements to bring your weapon to bare. Realistically, you will not be privileged to have advanced knowledge of your deadly force encounter, and you will not be able to dictate the circumstances when it occurs. Having said that, prior preparation prevents poor performance. Don’t complicate self-preservation efforts with additional tasks required to make your weapon operational when trying to save your life.
I agree for the most part; the one thing I do not necessarily agree with is the cheap holster. A DeSantis pocket holster is an excellent product and very inexpensive and does exactly what it is designed to do - hide the gun outline and protect the trigger. And absolutely nothing else in that pocket, ESPECIALLY things like keys
I don't carry one in the chamber, and if it is a revolver - the cylinder lined up to the barrel is empty. My first priority is never having an accident.incident, so - only really owned firearms for a couple years, and that is what I'm comfortable with. I've read plenty that people think that is silly, but I don't care. Granted, I've practiced draw from shoulder holster and IWB, and the delay to rack a slide is dramatic, but it is what it is. I personally carry only so I am not completely defenseless, and the chamber being empty just feels safer to me, so - it is what I do.
I can see that for an old single action, but what does it do for you with a double action?
Yeah, an automotive with an empty chamber is an unloaded gun. If you want something small with a long heavy trigger, try a Kahr.
Why do you not want a round in the chamber under the hammer of your revolver? Is it a very old revolver?
If I was afraid of loaded guns I would not carry one.
nope. just seen to many weird things, heard people say too many times - "well, that's not supposed to happen", or "don't worry, it's fine" only to then witness something go wrong real fast. lightning, static electricity, taser, act of god - don't know, just know that if the round isn't in the chamber it can't get fired down the barrel, it is the only way to know for sure. when I was a kid, guns we learned on didn't have safeties, and I guess I learned then that it wasn't safe to keep a round in the chamber, so I still follow that 40+ years later.
LCP and LC9s Pro w/ one in the chamber in sticky holsters. If I wasn't comfortable when I first started, I am now.
The gun won't fire unless you pull that relatively loooong double-action trigger.
IF you're going to carry it at all. carry it ready for you.
Well, as someone else pointed out - your practice of carrying with the hammer on an empty chamber only works for a SAO revolver. If it’s on the empty chamber and some “magic” event happens that causes the hammer to cock and drop, then the cylinder is going to rotate and a loaded chamber will be under the hammer, resulting in a discharge.
You might want to reevaluate your method of carry, taking into account how the gun actually works.
And add to that the fact that modern revolvers now have some sort of firing pin safety wherein the hammer cannot even come into contact with the firing pin unless the trigger is depressed. i'm not trying to harp on you, but this is a precaution taken for no reason and I'd like to avoid the dissemination of bad information. Heck, even my single actions have firing pins blocks. It's also a good way to turn a five shot into a four shot.
Film495, what guns did you have 40 yrs. ago that didn’t have safeties?
" best practices ",sorry but where in the wide world of sports did you see me say or impune that ?.
It was in reference to mention of the Israeli use of an empty chamber carry,or better yet go back and read ALL that transpired prior to,and then my comments.
What "WAS DONE" was all I was pointing out.
The challenge for the OP is to define what constitutes a "good" holster. In my book, a "good" holster must 1) hold the handgun securely, 2) cover the trigger completely, AND 3) hold the gun in the same position to ensure a consistent grip and presentation.
Lots of pocket holsters can't come close to 1) or 2) (looking at you "sticky holster" makers and users). Even the best pocket holster that meets 1) and 2) very often does not lend itself to 3).
I don't think that the issue is with the gun...its with the carry mode, as well as the holster the OP is likely using.
Ok, when I watch old Andy Griffith reruns, I really identify with Barney Fife. And since I am not ex military or police, I want to make sure that I don't shoot me or someone else accidentally. So, perhaps I am paranoid, but I carry semi's regularly, but don't carry with one in the chamber. Yes, I may be dead for not being quick enough, but if I hear a pop or two, in a public situation, I'll be prepared.
For the OP, I would get a gun you're comfortable with, train with it and carry it so it's ready to go.
Film 495, if you're not carrying a Colt SAA or a similar clone, you're just wasting one of your limited number of shots as the drop-safe issues you are concerned about were eliminated back in the 1940's with S&W revolvers, Ruger always had a transfer bar on his revolvers and Colt, Charter, etc. all have their own hammer-blocking systems in place.
Empty your revolver, cock the hammer and look between the face of the hammer and the frame and you'll see either a hammer blocking device (This drops out of the way upon firing) or a transfer bar (this moves up and imparts the hammers energy to the firing pin when the gun is fired. ) Both systems will allow the gun to fire only when the trigger is pulled and held all the way back. If you're afraid that a gun will fall out of your holster or your grasp and land on the hammer, firing it, get a revolver that's on the California "drop safe" roster. That's what it's "intended" to be for..(It's really just more cloaked gun control, but they have to sell it as a 'safety' thing.)
To both: Concern for safety is a very good trait, but don't let it paralyze you. Confidence in your abilities and familiarity with your chosen carry firearm will eliminate the anxieties you feel.
I'm just sharing for the OP, that yes - I'm concerned enough with a round in the chamber not to do so. It is riskier than not having a round in the chamber - simple as that. If anyone has any actual data showing that for a common civilian, there is any benefit to a round in the chamber - I'll look at your info, but other than that I'm going to do it my way because it works for me, and several people I know - and some countries, and militaries across the world, because it reduces accidents.
I have been carrying handguns regularly for 30 years (since age 13). I have possessed a concealed carry permit for over 15 years, generally pocket carry or OWB.
I REFUSE to carry a weapon without either a full-stroke / full-weight trigger pull, positive manual safety or true single action design. The "dingus" on a typical striker gun is NOT a true safety, just a mechanism to prevent discharge if dropped.
As an armed citizen, the probability of an AD/ND with a light weight / short travel trigger is far greater than actually discharging your weapon in a defensive encounter.
This is not correct. The "dingus" is a safety intended to prevent an unintended depression of trigger and it operates like any other safety. It requires a purposeful manipulation to disable it. In my particular chosen brand of striker fired pistol, there are two mechanisms intended to prevent discharge if the pistol is dropped and neither rely on the "dingus." The first is the striker/firing pin block that does not disengage unless the trigger is depressed and the second is that there is an internal stop that prevents the trigger bar from becoming disengaged from the sear. Not to mention that even if those two safeties failed, the striker is only half cocked and from that position, it does not have the energy required to pop a primer.
I'll second that. The "Israeli carry" option is off the table for the little guns, IMO. I don't even like it for bigger pistols, but as for the P32, the only guns I'd less like to rack in a stressful situation are a Beretta Jetfire and a Seecamp. There just isn't enough to grab onto.
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