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Does IDPA need a Grandmaster class ?

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by Archer, May 4, 2003.

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  1. Archer

    Archer Member

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    Forgive if this has come up before but... yesterday while shooting an IDPA qualifier one of my fellow squad members opined that IDPA is mistaken in having the likes of Rob Leatham- who reportedly can do the classifier in around 60 points- in the same class (CDP Master) as a "poor 91-point schmuck" (also CDP Master).

    Any thoughts ?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2003
  2. Andrew Wyatt

    Andrew Wyatt Member

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    Personally, i think they should get rid of all the classes, raffle off any prizes they recieve for the match instead of giving them by place and rename it to the Internatopnal Defensive Pistol Research and Development Association.
     
  3. ChristopherG

    ChristopherG Member

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    Why not just make master harder?
     
  4. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm in favor of it.

    There is that division between Master class and the Great Ones.

    Master class is plenty hard enough. I think that the regular classes are pretty reasonable. But there is that .01% that is really that good. I have no problem with them having their own class.
     
  5. Jeeper

    Jeeper Member

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    I think there should be a GM class. People like Rob L. and Dave Sevigny are just so far ahead of some other masters. I think that with more classes people are less likely to sandbag.
     
  6. KP95DAO

    KP95DAO member

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    Dream on!

    Jeeper says,

    "I think that with more classes people are less likely to sandbag."

    There is a guy here (OK) who is a SSP/Master class shooter and he shoots in SSP/EX because he has yet to be forced up to Master. Next month (at the OK State Championship) he will compete as a SSP/EX. I am seriously considering shooting as a CDP/MM just so I have a chance to win. Will I be "sandbagging"? Maybe. I will also be giving myself a chance to win where, otherwise, I will have no chance. Barring him dropping dead in the middle of the match. I have seen others do the same thing. One primary route to winning more is to go to SSR as so few compete in this division.

    But, after all, it is just a game.
     
  7. Jeeper

    Jeeper Member

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    That is the problem with sandbagers, they cause others to have to work around them. I personally prefer to be second in a higher catagory than win a lower one.
     
  8. bullseyekp

    bullseyekp Member

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    Surely we can attribute this problem to IDPA's infancy......well, maybe not...

    USPSA/IPSC has been around for more than 20 years and they have 6 classes. Perhaps this was an oversight on part of the IDPA BOD? I find that hard to believe. I am an SSP/MA in IDPA but I am shooting in the A/B range in USPSA Production. In USPSA, only the top 5% make Grandmaster. I would venture to say that in IDPA, the top 15% shoot as MA.

    Would more classes stop sandbagging? No. Would more classes give a more accurate reflection as to how proficient you really are as a shooter? Maybe (if you shoot to your full potential). But then again, having only one COF to determine your classification (unless you get bumped at a big match) poses all kinds of issues.

    I would support a change to the rulebook to include 6 classes. But, I have no say in IDPA and must submit myself to the ruling clan's ideology.

    Maybe, the USPSA classification method is too complicated for the hillbilly ninjas. After all, some hillbilly ninjas only speak ninjaese and don't comprehend numbers. Or maybe IDPA HQ considers 6 classes "UNTACTICAL"!? :eek: :what: :banghead:
     
  9. braindead0

    braindead0 Member

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    Are you saying that people qualified at say MA are signing up for matches as EX? Or is 'sandbagging' purposely not requalifying in order to keep winning your class?

    Just trying to make sure I understand what this issue is. I keep all the scores for our matches, and I would pretty quickly find anybody that tried to drop class. If they never came and shot as a higher class I'd never know..on the other hand.
     
  10. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    Usually when I hear Sandbagger I think of somebody who purposefully does bad on the Classifier so they can compete in a lesser class.
     
  11. braindead0

    braindead0 Member

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    I'll have to watch for that. Luckily my match results database can already sort by a variety of criteria, perhaps I'll add a 'sandbagger report' to it that looks for people that 50% of the time beat the lower scores in the next class up...

    bwahahaha, if we've got any I'll find 'em!
     
  12. KP95DAO

    KP95DAO member

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    I informally proposed to Bill and the gang that "promotions" be done by forcing up those who shoot in the top thirty percent of the next higher class in scanctioned competition. And if the lower class had no one that met that, even though there were over ten shooters, then no one would be forced up.

    The idea behind this is that, if you are forced up, you would already be shooting in the top thirty percent of the higher class. I don't know why, but they didn't think enough of it to put it into effect. Oh well, I tried.
     
  13. braindead0

    braindead0 Member

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    Top 30%? Then all you'd have to do is sandbag to be just better than the class you are in (presumably the goal) and you wouldn't have to worry about it.

    As far as I'm concered, if 50% of the time you are as good as or better than the lowest person in the next class up.. I'd suggest re-qualification..

    Of course, that wouldn't work well as a rule, but the I don't think the top 30% of the next higher class makes much sense either. The top 60% would mean you are shooting in the middle of the next class up, and should probably be forced.
     
  14. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm just a Sharp Shooter, but I usually finish pretty high overall. I have a friend who is just a Marksman, but he usually finishes in the top 5 overall.

    I think the problem is that most of us don't shoot the classifier very often. I don't think it is purposeful sandbagging. I've only shot one classifier, and that was when I first started shooting IDPA a year and a half ago.

    Oh well, I've got a classifier on the 24th. Time for me to put up or shut up! :D
     
  15. braindead0

    braindead0 Member

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    For sure ;-).. I'm unclassified in anything! Haven't decided if i'll do SSR, SSP and ESP... probably just SSR/SSP for now.. Heck, the wife and I are just getting started!!

    (I know, and I'm already the Secretary for our local club.. ;-)
     
  16. KP95DAO

    KP95DAO member

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    BraindeadO,

    If you study a bunch of the sanctioned match results over the last three years, as I have, I think you'll see what I'm saying.
     
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