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Does Illinois Have SBR and certain machine guns now

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by Trent, Sep 12, 2012.

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  1. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    The guy I bought the DShK and ZB37 from today was telling me that Illinois just signed in to law an act legalizing SBR's!!!!!!!!

    I don't know if this is true, haven't done my homework yet, but according to him anyone with a C&R license will be legally allowed to own SBR's that are "vintage military arms" (AR's, AK's, etc). Still have to comply with NFA, but ...


    OH MY GOD IF IT IS TRUE I MIGHT JUST CRY!!!

    (Because my C&R showed up yesterday in the mail!!!)

    Someone pinch me, tell me I'm dreaming, or that this info is wrong.
     
  2. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    REMOVED - quoted old law text.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  3. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Sorry, the bill has been superceded as follows (takes effect Jan 1 2013)

    This is the current language:

    (7) A person possessing a rifle with a barrel or
    barrels less than 16 inches in length if: (A) the person
    has been issued a Curios and Relics license from the U.S.
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; or (B)
    the person is an active member of a bona fide, nationally
    recognized military re-enacting group and the modification
    is required and necessary to accurately portray the weapon
    for historical re-enactment purposes; the re-enactor is in
    possession of a valid and current re-enacting group
    membership credential; and the overall length of the weapon
    as modified is not less than 26 inches.

    The following was STRUCK:

    An active member of
    a bona fide, nationally recognized military re-enacting
    group possessing a vintage rifle or modern reproduction
    thereof with a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches in
    length for the purpose of using the rifle during historical
    re-enactments if: (A) the person has been issued a Curios
    and Relics license from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol,
    Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; or (B) the modification
    is required and necessary to accurately portray the weapon
    for historical re-enactment purposes; the re-enactor is in
    possession of a valid and current re-enacting group
    membership credential; and the overall length of the weapon
    as modified is not less than 26 inches.



    That is MUCH clearer.

    C&R's can own SBR's. Period. No restrictions or limitations on re-enacting.

    Oh sweet lord.

    I'm so frigging happy!!!!!!!!!

    (The original was evidently struck down hastily as it *DID* open a loophole that allowed machineguns... temporarily...)

    Already called my Sheriff. :)
     
  4. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Trent,
    What is the Public Act, bill number or Statute?
     
  5. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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  6. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Spoke to the Tazewell County Sheriff, Robert Huston, for a half an hour today about gun rights, and the SBR legalization for C&R holders. Very positive conversation - he's gone to Springfield TWICE to testify on behalf of concealed carry in Illinois to committees.

    Plan on getting a Form 1 sent through soon to the ATF soon with a cover letter citing the public act, and a copy of my C&R, so they don't get confused... :)

    Happy days.. :)

    Edit; postscript..

    It's OUTSTANDING when a Sheriff will take the time to call you back, and speak at length on a subject. He obviously enjoys firearms.
     
  7. shotgunjoel

    shotgunjoel Member

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    So from what I read here, a C&R holder could have any rifle SBR, but a re-enactor can only have an SBR that is used for re-enactments. (and the OAL is still >26'') That doesn't make any sense to me, it'd seem that the C&R holder would be limited to C&R SBRs, but from what you posted that doesn't seem to be the case. I believe that stocked Hi-Powers, Lugers, C96s, etc. were already legal in Illinois. I recall seeing a man with a stocked C96 at a gun show in Springfield, and Simpson Ltd. in Galesburg carries these types of stocked pistols. Further on that point, since the actual receiver is the SBR, wouldn't such stocked pistol/SBRs not qualify because the stocks are easily removable?
     
  8. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    shotgunjoel;

    Yes, a federally licensed C&R FFL holder can possess ANY SBR, not just C&R SBR's.

    A re-enactor still has a 26" length limit, and has to be a type of weapon they use in re-enactments (although, there's no reason you couldn't re-enact a modern battle...).

    If you convert a pistol to a carbine (say, swap the slide with an upper), it's already legal in Illinois as long as it has a 16" barrel and is 24" overall in the most extended position (if collapsible/folding stock). This "became legal" after ATF ruling 2011-4. You can convert a pistol to a rifle and back again, but you can NOT convert a rifle to a pistol and back again. (If that makes any sense)
     
  9. shotgunjoel

    shotgunjoel Member

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    So are we still waiting on the governor to sign this, or am I just confused by the legislative process in my own state? From what I read on the link provided, it has been passed by both chambers, but nowhere does it say that Patty Q. signed it, or that it was sent to his office.
     
  10. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Click on the "bill status" and read the last few lines:

    5/17/2012 House Passed Both Houses
    6/15/2012 House Sent to the Governor
    8/10/2012 House Governor Approved
    8/10/2012 House Effective Date January 1, 2013
    8/10/2012 House Public Act . . . . . . . . . 97-0936
     
  11. MidwestRookie

    MidwestRookie Member

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    I still feel like I'm dreaming..I'll be sending out for my c&r this week just in case I wake up and this is really happening..

    :what:
     
  12. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    MidwestRookie;

    Same feeling. The day I found out, I kept telling my wife "pinch me, I think I'm still asleep" after I found out. Followed by "OWWW! DAMNIT I WASN'T SERIOUS!"

    I REALLY want to SBR my PS90, an AR, an FS2000, and an AK. I've had an (arguably) useless AK pistol for 5 years. Throwing a stock on one of those would make them a LOT more fun. :)
     
  13. MidwestRookie

    MidwestRookie Member

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    The PS90 would be sick!

    AR first for me..if I can just SBR my current lower, I'll be ordering a BCM 11.5" upper.

    I assume we'll need to set up a trust for the NFA?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  14. shotgunjoel

    shotgunjoel Member

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    So how on earth did we get Pat Quinn to sign this?

    EDIT:
    Also, this passed with near unanimous support. Speaker Madigan and Acevedo (the guy who always introduces the anti-gun legislation) both voted for it. Do they not realize that this also applies to modern firearms? And that anyone can apply for a C&R super-easy? Was there some kind of deal made on this to pass it along with some other bill? I just have a hard time believing that this got through so easily without us having to give up something.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  15. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Midwest-

    You don't need to set up a trust, in fact, you can't form a trust on a C&R as you can't apply for the C&R as a corporate entity like you can a normal FFL. Only individuals can apply for a C&R.

    I don't think they bothered to read it. No one probably read past the first sentence on the synopsis: "Replaces everything after the enacting clause. Amends the Criminal Code of 1961. Changes the exemption from the unlawful use of weapons statute and the aggravated unlawful use of a weapon statute ... "

    The Governor signed a whole stack of stuff that day. He was probably on autopilot and late for a golf game.
     
  16. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    The question is, does this exempt MACHINE GUNS with barrels under 16" in length?

    If you go look at UUW code under Subsection 24-1(a)(7) :
    (http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072000050K24-1)

    It appears this allows legal MACHINE GUNS which had barrels under 16", as they cited the whole damn list under subsection 24-1(a)(7).

    IT DOES NOT SAY SUBSECTION 24-1(a)(7)(ii), IT SAYS SUBSECTION 24-1(a)(7).


    (without the (ii))

    The way I'm reading this, machine guns with barrels under 16" are legal in IL for C&R holders.

    EDIT: I've sent a letter to my Sheriff and our local States Attorney for clarification
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  17. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Mods please rename title to

    "Does Illinois Have SBR and certain machineguns now?"
     
  18. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Trent, the way I read the law you are right. However I am not an attorney, just a deputy. I will ask the states attorney when I see him and see what he says.

    I would bet that the legislature "fixes" it in the veto session as soon as someone points it out. Quinn will probably veto the whole thing then.

    Kind of reminds me of when NFA firearms were legalized for a period of a few days during the Thompson administration. As soon as word got out the legislature rushed to reverse itself, the ever cooperative BATF refused to process any applications and Thompson signed the reversal the day he got it.
     
  19. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Jeff;

    Veto session is to override things that the governor has vetoed in prior sessions that year.

    He's already signed this in to law; he didn't veto it.
     
  20. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Trent,
    They can introduce other legislation in the veto session. They have done it before and the governor is pushing for them to address pension reform which wasn't vetoed. I would not be surprised to see a bill "fixing" this once the legislature realizes they have legalized machine guns.

    The sad truth is that the legislature can do anything Mike Madigan wants it to do.
     
  21. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    This public act replaces a public act that was passed in 2011 which ALSO had the same exemption.

    (EDIT: Point being this has been standing as law for well over a year now, and THIS is a refinement to clear up language in the previous one)

    They lumped C&R holders in to the same exemptions as military, law enforcement, and manufacturers (SOT). Sure, there's an 'under 16"' limitation, but that opens up a brave new world of SMG's and a wide variety of assault rifles.

    Might not realize my dream of owning a transferable MG42, but I'd settle for an MP5 or Sten or Uzi or Mac or CAR-15 or... what a Christmas list indeed...
     
  22. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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  23. IL-Gunlobby

    IL-Gunlobby Member

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    trent -- you are wrong about MGs and HB-4901.

    as the author of the bill, it deals with cleaning up the language on C&R licensees being able to own SBRs.

    it pertains to subsection 7 full autos are subsection 6 if memory serves me correct.

    Don;t try to make more of this than what is it and get guys going for things that are not covered under the law. As to how this happened, it happened becuase many of us worked slowly and diligently to more the issue along without publicizing it and jumping up and down about what we were doing. The law takes effect on January 1. we are trying to keep our heads down till then and let it roll out.
     
  24. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    No, section 6 of UUW is silencers (suppressors).

    Section 7 of UUW code is machineguns, short barreled rifles, etc.

    Section 24-1, section (a)(7) is quoted above as it appears in the UUW statutes.

    The C&R exemption appears in the same list as law enforcement, military, and SOT manufacturers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  25. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    The big issue is how Illinois classifies the term "RIFLE".

    Under federal law, a rifle is "A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. 18 USC"
     
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