Does restoring an antique rifle hurt its value?

[andrawsslc]

I have recently inherited a WW2 Mauser K98 all matching numbers with the Nazi eagle holding a swastika. The stock is in good condition but the "butt stock (?)" has rust as does the bottom of the "receiver (?)" area and the end of the barrel, possibly inside the barrel as well. I don't intend on selling the gun but I don't want to hurt it's value by having the rust removed, if that actually hurts its value. I would love to get it reconditioned to do some long distance shooting. If I have a professional restore this gun to it's original condition am I destroying it's value? I've heard this is the case with other types of antiques. I'll forward pictures as soon as I have the rifle in my possession.

 

[Ron James]

Don't know, do you have a antique rifle that you are considering restoring? Not the K98 because that wouldn't be an antique for another 40 or so years

 

[andrawsslc]

I assumed it was an "antique". I know what happens when one assumes.

Since it isn't old enough to be an antique there wouldn't be any loss in value by restoring (removing any rust) it?

 

[Oro]

There's no simple answer here.

The one rule is that even if you enhance the value, it's probably by less than you spent on the refinish/restoration. If the gun is rusted and pitted, it's probably well worth refnishing it and making it a shooter at modest cost - it doesn't sound to have any great collector value as-is. You'll enjoy the gun more.

 

[Jim Watson]

A true restoration back to arsenal new appearance will cost more than the gun is worth.
An ordinary refinish will eliminate what value it has.

Remove the rust with fine steel wool and oil and move along.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

^^^^^ What Jim said +1.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Yep.

Clean it up and shoot it.

 

[Sunray]

"...but the "butt stock (?)" has rust as does the bottom of the "receiver..." Hi. A K98 isn't an antique. Depends on how badly its rusted. Light rust can easily be removed with 0000 steel wool and some light oil. It's faster to use a light touch with a fine brass wire wheel in a bench grinder though. Eye protection is essential.
However, if the rifle is heavily rusted(the steel flaking off), don't bother doing anything. It isn't worth the time and effort.

 

[Jim K]

The usual rule is that a true antique is better left alone. The problem is that there is a fine point where restoration makes sense.

First the gun has to be at a point where it has so little value that restoration can only improve it. There is no point in spending $2000 to restore a gun that would be worth only $100 if in perfect condition. Only if restoration will improve a gun is it worth while.

Second, the restoration must be well done. The wire wheel, the bench grinder, the belt sander, the Dremel tool, the mill bastard file, have no place in restoration. That route takes a gun of some value or potential value and reduces it to a piece of junk of no value.

Third, the restorer must know what guns of that kind looked like when new. A WWI vintage Luger pistol or an M1 rifle given a mirror finish and a hot tank blue will look like hell. Worse, it will look like what it is, a reblued piece of (expletive deleted).

If the gun can be restored, and if it will be improved, both in looks and value thereby, go for it. But in most cases, restoration will do much more harm than good in changing the value.

Jim

 

[rcmodel]

The last edition of the American Rifleman had a L.C. Smith shotgun featured in "This Old Gun".

The gun was purchased for $750 dollars in poor shape.
Then sent to Briley for a complete professional restoration at a cost of $2,120.
So now, the owner has $2,870 invested in a like-new, but restored, L.C. Smith shotgun.

But after it had been restored, it is now valued at $1,550.

So, $2,870 invested, minus $1,550 value = $1,320 lost on restoring it.
Looking at it the other way, restoring the $750 gun made it a $1,550 gun.
But still costing $1,320 more then he can sell it for.

rc

 

[jimmyraythomason]

But after it had been restored, it is now valued at $1,550.

This says more about the cost of restoration than the value of the piece. IF(big word here) the SAME QUALITY of restoration can be had for considerably less money it would be worth doing. IF having a restored firearm is worth more to the owner than market value(sentimentally?) it can be worth it. If I had that kind of money and wanted dad's old Mauser or Luger pistol he took off of a German officer in WWII to look like new then it is also worth it. For ANY old firearm with "collector's" value, leaving it alone is the best policy.

 

[Jim Watson]

The only restorer I ever heard of who worked cheap was the late Bill Adair.
His work on 1911s and contemporaries was outstanding, and priced in the hundreds instead of thousands of bucks.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

My point is: it is the cost of the restoration not the restoration itself that is cost prohibitive.

 

[andrawsslc]

I spoke with a gunsmith that I was referred to by a trusted local gun shop owner. I've decided to have the gunsmith remove the rust, go through the action and clean and oil everything that's needed & "cold blue" the metal. He is going to check the bore and make sure it's in "good condition". I hope I'm making the right decision. He assures me this will protect the metal from further rust damage. This rifle is a 1943 K98 DOU with all matching numbers and the cleaning rod. It has two Nazi Eagles holding swastikas





on the receiver. He asked if I wanted him to refinish the stock and told him no. I'll try and post pics when it's done. He isn't starting on the rifle till Mon. April 5th. If anyone thinks I'm going the wrong direction PLEASE LET ME KNOW! Thanks.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

The last edition of the American Rifleman had a L.C. Smith shotgun featured in "This Old Gun".

The gun was purchased for $750 dollars in poor shape.
Then sent to Briley for a complete professional restoration at a cost of $2,120.
So now, the owner has $2,870 invested in a like-new, but restored, L.C. Smith shotgun.

But after it had been restored, it is now valued at $1,550.

So, $2,870 invested, minus $1,550 value = $1,320 lost on restoring it.
Looking at it the other way, restoring the $750 gun made it a $1,550 gun.
But still costing $1,320 more then he can sell it for.

sure thing! but cost can be cut if you are able to do your own work

 

[cyclopsshooter]

the photos i would leave the action alone, does not look too bad... like others said, steel wool and oil on the rust... i would hit the butt plate with the wire wheel and throw it in my park tank... or use some gunkote.

best to have a detail dissasembly and attend to each individual part

the bore... it will probably be shootable but if the lands and grooves are gone youd be lucky to hit the side of a barn at 100 yards

 

[2500ak]

If I was working with a gun that was really valuable I'd try chemically stripping the rust, then using some very fine polish and buffing before resorting to attacking it with steel wool or a grinder. If its very heavily pitted there isn't a whole lot else you can do other than removing material.

It's pretty obvious when something has been buffed with steel wool or sandpaper.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

It's pretty obvious when something has been buffed with steel wool or sandpaper.

like the chimps in springfield

 

[Cosmoline]

I spoke with a gunsmith that I was referred to by a trusted local gun shop owner. I've decided to have the gunsmith remove the rust, go through the action and clean and oil everything that's needed & "cold blue" the metal. He is going to check the bore and make sure it's in "good condition".

It sounds like a big ripoff. First of all, I would not try to have it reblued. Just clean the rust off, leave a little bit of CLP and let it get a nice patina. The metal protects itself from rust if you take good care of it.

Moreover, cold blue tends to be hideously ugly and stands out like sore thumb against a fine old Mauser blue. You can clean that rust off yourself with some ultra fine SW for the worst and rags with oil for the rest.

The only thing you might need the smith for is to check your headspace, and you can do that yourself with a simple tool. I used to carry one in my pocket when I was shopping for Mausers.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Gunsmith remove the rust? Dang, I'd do it with a brass scraper and some oil.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

If your Mauser is a Russian capture rifle,the bolt number may not match the receiver number and will have an X stamped into the receiver (usually on the left side). If ALL the parts have matching numbers(including the bolt) then it is possibly a Yugoslavian capture or a vet bring back. Russian capture rifles in good condition are going for around $300 now with exceptional specimens going for more. Clean the rust off with 0000 steel wool and oil,have the headspace checked and shoot it. NO COLD BLUE! (Patina is much nicer) Later,I would have a complete refinish/restore (if it were mine) right now stopping the rust is the most important step.

 

[rcmodel]

It's pretty obvious when something has been buffed with steel wool or sandpaper.

Sandpaper is obvious.
But you don't know whereof you speak about steel wool.

Professional bluing shops use extra fine steel wool and oil for the final clean-up on a fresh from the tank hot blue job.

It will simply not harm bluing in the slightest.
All it does is remove bluing salts residue on a new job, or surface rust on an old one, without removing any good bluing remaining.

sure thing! but cost can be cut if you are able to do your own work

BTW: There seems to be a good deal of misuse of the term "Restoring" in this thread.

Restoring means to make a gun appear as it did when it left the factory decades or centurys ago.
That can include new color case hardening, rust bluing, refreshed engraving & stock checkering, and a new stock finish that cannot be told from the factory orginial.
Very few of us are capable of doing that kind of work in the basement.

What everyone is talking about in this thread is refinishing with wire wheels on a grinder & cold blueing.

That most certainly is not Restoring, and it's a stretch to even call it refinishing.

rc

 

[Gord]

I agree that your "gunsmith" sounds like a big fat ripoff; most of the stuff he's offering to do either doesn't need to be done (like refinishing the stock - it looks to be in great shape, not that I'm familiar with Mausers), or trivially easy for you to do yourself (cold blue/rust removal). It also doesn't sound like he has any interest in preserving the originality of the rifle, and I feel that speaks to his professionalism or lack thereof.

Forgive me for being straightforward, but am I correct in assuming you do not have much, if any, experience with firearms?

If so, please stick around here, at least for a while; we can help you restore your gun yourself (saving you some unnecessary gunsmith fees) and after that's done we can tell you all about its operation, its history and whatever else you care to know about it. Mausers are regarded as some of the finest bolt-action rifles ever produced, and yours obviously has a story to tell - which makes it that much cooler.

We're a friendly bunch here; you won't regret your stay.

 

[rondog]

Have you ever heard of "rust removal by electrolysis"? Might do some Google research on that first, before spending any money or doing any damage. It's something you can do yourself at home, cheap and easy. Kills and removes the rust, but won't hurt the original finish. Simple process using water, Arm & Hammer Washing Soda, a battery charger, and some electrodes made from steel rebar. Ain't perfect, but a great place to start. Also search on this forum, the CMP forum, milsurps.com forum, and any other gun forums for "rust removal by electrolysis".

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[andrawsslc]

I talked to the gunsmith today and told him not to do anything other than remove the rust and clean it. Thanks to everyone for your sage advice. I am a novice in this sport and enjoy learning. Thanks again!