Yes exactly like ball.
Does the .380 really have enough stopping power?
- Thread starter SniperStraz
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huntsman
Member
Playing with fire when you make a statement like that here
to bad you didn't have a .38spl to test, I doubt it would have done any better.
W L Johnson
Member
Yea, after a 20 minute monologue where they had to tell him every little detail of their plans.
Does the .380 really have enough stopping power?? Definitely so!! James Bond killed all his victims with a single shot with his Walther PPS.
Wasn't Bond's PPK chambered in .32 ACP?
The reason that 380 HP's or any other cartridge for that matter do not expand in wood is because the wood is too stiff to get into the bullet cavity and even if it did there would be no pressure to expand the cavity.
HP's are made to work with fluid type materials Body Fat, Muscle, Ballistic Gelatin. However wood does give you a good idea about a cartridges
potential. The 380 is a good CC sidearm would I want to go up against a
40S&W with one-no. Would I want to go up against a knife or a ball bat with one- darn straight.
HP's are made to work with fluid type materials Body Fat, Muscle, Ballistic Gelatin. However wood does give you a good idea about a cartridges
potential. The 380 is a good CC sidearm would I want to go up against a
40S&W with one-no. Would I want to go up against a knife or a ball bat with one- darn straight.
I must have missed something! I can't find any post referring to expansion in wood!
I don't really get all the "the .380 sucks" talk from so many people. Isn't it really just a short 9mm.
I can see guys that like the .45 or some of the big calibers complaining, but the 9 is soooo close. And don't get me wrong, I love the 9mm.... I own 4 9mm pistols.
I can see guys that like the .45 or some of the big calibers complaining, but the 9 is soooo close. And don't get me wrong, I love the 9mm.... I own 4 9mm pistols.
1SOW
Member
Facts, figures and opinions abound.
Given any choice I wouldn't buy/use a .380 IMHO 9mm is minimum.
1. .380 Ammo cost and availability is outrageous and hard to get.
2. In competition a "Popper" is a steel target, hinged at the ground adjusted to fall over when struck by the lightest centerfire 9mm ammo permitted in the rules (125PF=Way slow ammo)
I have personally seen more than one .380 hit this target in the 'sweet' spot and fall to the ground in front of it without dropping the popper.
Rightly or wrongly this last 'evidence' convinced me that 9mm or more is needed to be effective at anything involving stopping power.
I KNOW, a wellplaced .22lr can stop a man with one shot. So why not carry one?
A 300 Win Mag bullet is smaller in diameter than a .380. Would you also say it's just a cut-down 9mm?
Given any choice I wouldn't buy/use a .380 IMHO 9mm is minimum.
1. .380 Ammo cost and availability is outrageous and hard to get.
2. In competition a "Popper" is a steel target, hinged at the ground adjusted to fall over when struck by the lightest centerfire 9mm ammo permitted in the rules (125PF=Way slow ammo)
I have personally seen more than one .380 hit this target in the 'sweet' spot and fall to the ground in front of it without dropping the popper.
Rightly or wrongly this last 'evidence' convinced me that 9mm or more is needed to be effective at anything involving stopping power.
I KNOW, a wellplaced .22lr can stop a man with one shot. So why not carry one?
A 300 Win Mag bullet is smaller in diameter than a .380. Would you also say it's just a cut-down 9mm?
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I guess my point was that in a hard material the 9mm did not offer a leaps and bounds improvment over the .380 acp. In a body I can not tell you how much diffrence it will make. I keep hearing people say that the .380 is a wimpy gun but have not found anyone willing to let me shoot them. To hear some of these folks talk it should inflict no more than a minor irritation.
But what my little test did prove to me beyond a doubt. A .380 will give penatration through bone to travel to a vital organ. If your chest is thicker and harder than 3 3/4" of aged wood I may be in trouble. Maybe that's what people mean when they talk about how hard core they are.
I plan to try this little experiment again using a mixed variety of .38 spcl, and .38 +p and the good old .357 mag. Just for craps and smiles I will try a few diffirent .44mag loads as well.
lysol
Member
.380 ammo isn't that bad. i picked up 7 boxes at $16 a box. it's not like you are shooting something like this like a .22 ruger. you just shoot to stay proficient. maybe 100 rounds a month or so.
silversport
Member
...that's my point...if the hollowpoint opens up...great...if not, it's still as good as ball right???...
Bill
Oscar 14
Member
A 300 Win Mag bullet is smaller in diameter than a .380. Would you also say it's just a cut-down 9mm?
Please do some research before making a statement like this. A .380 is a 9mm short invented by John Browning. Also known as 9mm Kurz which means short in German.
Please do some research before making a statement like this. A .380 is a 9mm short invented by John Browning. Also known as 9mm Kurz which means short in German.
Fastcast
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Yes, opinions do abound.....LOL
I'm sure many people had a .380 before the prices sky rocketed and ammo was hard to find. Should one sell or not carry their .380 now because?
I watched a shooting show where the M4 .223 also could not knock down a popper at rifle distance but of course the .308 did. Does that mean the .223 is incapable of stopping the fight in a man?.....LOL
I believe realistic self defense distances are going to be more like 20ft not 15-20 yards. At 20 yards I'm not feeling very threatened, unless they already have their gun out and are shooting at me or throwing knives and/or Chinese stars from across a parking lot.
Highly unlikely! Lastly, most of the gel test I've seen, even with layers of denim, have .380 Gold Dots, XTP, Hydra-Shok and Golden Sabers expanding to .45-.50 and still penetrating 9.5" right up to 12"......Now any man that can take two quick slugs driven into his chest 9-12" deep and 1/2" holes and still have the will to fight, is unlikely to stop no matter what caliber handgun you pull.
Lets keep things into perspective please!.....Some of you act like the .380 is not much different than throwing stones......One has to wonder how well the tough talkers who poo, poo the .380 would fare with 2 quick holes of .380 in their chest @ 20ft.
MCgunner
Member
Originally Posted by stinger 327 View Post
These small caliber mouse guns don't expand enough or get to the velocity needed to expand which is why FMJ is preferred to get deeper penetration.
Critical Defense provides reliable expansion every single time.
http://www.hornady.com/store/380-Auto-90-gr-FTX-Critical-Defense/
Exactly. To warp a phrase, hollowpoint may not expand, but ball never will, or something like that.
These small caliber mouse guns don't expand enough or get to the velocity needed to expand which is why FMJ is preferred to get deeper penetration.
Critical Defense provides reliable expansion every single time.
http://www.hornady.com/store/380-Auto-90-gr-FTX-Critical-Defense/
Exactly. To warp a phrase, hollowpoint may not expand, but ball never will, or something like that.
Right!...that's my point...if the hollowpoint opens up...great...if not, it's still as good as ball right???...
Bill
huntsman
Member
I'm not; Cabela's has BB on sale and in stock. I wish I could find some Critical Defense to try.
I don't think the ability of the .380 to knock down a 9mm specific popper is any more indication of the round's ability in a person than being fired into a bunch of 2x6"s and having relatively equal penetrations. Neither represent a human very well, though both add an interesting point of view.
I personally think we all need to assess what we feel our odds are of encountering a situation where we would need ANY firearm for defense. Then we need to think about what we feel the outcomes would be if each available round were to be used.
I know a few guys who work jobs that put them in bad neighborhoods at the wrong times of day/night. For them, I could see having something a little bulkier wouldn't matter while the extra rounds and power could certainly be helpful. I haven't ever personally seen a junkie high on PCP, knife or no knife. I see the occasional pot head once in a while but that's about the biggest drug issue around my area. As such I'm not worried about situations of these super human drug addicts coming freight training down on me. I just don't see it as a realistic threat. The single biggest threat for me is a rabid raccoon in the way.
I don't think .380 is as good as 9mm or bigger rounds. If you can conceal a 9mm or bigger, and can shoot it well, go for it. I am all for having enough gun. After a bit of research though I do feel safe with the .380 and decent ammo. I think the better JHP ammo has shown to reliably expand and penetrate well enough. Well enough is a personal criteria. If you don't think it fits that criteria, by all means, don't use it. But it also doesn't mean the guy who picks it is an idiot for doing so. I hate when people pass their opinions as the only truth and everything else is silly. They make more than one chambering and more than one pistol for a reason. It doesn't make one the best choice for every situation. Shoot what you want, can handle, and feel comfortable with.
I personally think we all need to assess what we feel our odds are of encountering a situation where we would need ANY firearm for defense. Then we need to think about what we feel the outcomes would be if each available round were to be used.
I know a few guys who work jobs that put them in bad neighborhoods at the wrong times of day/night. For them, I could see having something a little bulkier wouldn't matter while the extra rounds and power could certainly be helpful. I haven't ever personally seen a junkie high on PCP, knife or no knife. I see the occasional pot head once in a while but that's about the biggest drug issue around my area. As such I'm not worried about situations of these super human drug addicts coming freight training down on me. I just don't see it as a realistic threat. The single biggest threat for me is a rabid raccoon in the way.
I don't think .380 is as good as 9mm or bigger rounds. If you can conceal a 9mm or bigger, and can shoot it well, go for it. I am all for having enough gun. After a bit of research though I do feel safe with the .380 and decent ammo. I think the better JHP ammo has shown to reliably expand and penetrate well enough. Well enough is a personal criteria. If you don't think it fits that criteria, by all means, don't use it. But it also doesn't mean the guy who picks it is an idiot for doing so. I hate when people pass their opinions as the only truth and everything else is silly. They make more than one chambering and more than one pistol for a reason. It doesn't make one the best choice for every situation. Shoot what you want, can handle, and feel comfortable with.
silversport
Member
...sweet!
Bill
Bill
MCgunner
Member
People here actually think a 90 grain pill at 900 fps equals a 115 grain pill at 1263 fps (from my Kel Tec)? That's okay, I'll take the nine between those two. The numbers do not lie, cannot be refuted. Even if you're a Facklerite, you have to admit, equal diameter bullets, one packin' 410 ft lbs in a HEAVIER hollowpoint, the other packed about 190, sheesh!
What some of you don't seem to understand is people are not choosing the 380 over the 9mm.
It's about the pistol!:banghead:
What we are choosing is the smaller, thinner and lighter pistol that is easier to control in 380 than the same size and weight pistol would be in 9mm.
MCgunner
Member
Another way to put this....if the weight of the bullet and the velocity don't matter, if all that matters is the diameter of the bullet, then you must think that the .380 ACP kills as quick as the 180 grain Buffalo Bore .357 magnum load, well, except for a 0.002" diameter larger bullet. I can tell you this, I've taken multiple hogs with the .357 magnum, one recently with a 3" barrel 66 Taurus. I will not sell my .357s for a .380 ACP "hog gun". If you think it's as effective, fine, but don't go hog hunting with it. If you do, and the hog didn't rip your arms off for lunch, and you can reach the keyboard in your wheelchair, let us know how it went.
Now, then, I'd prefer even my 9x19 Ruger P85 to any .380. It CAN fire 147 grain +P stuff. I'll still prefer my .357s, though, for nasty critters like this. I normally don't hunt hogs with .357, but I have taken a few with my Blackhawk and one with my Taurus 3". I have a lot of hogs on my place, gives me opportunities. I have tested a few on trapped hogs, too. I might have to shoot one in the shoulder sometime with the .380 and see how long it takes to expire, like maybe come back next week and see if it's dead, yet.
Yes, I understand this, is why I bother to own a .380. I rarely carry it, though, as my Kel Tec 9mm is nearly as small, is easier to shoot well, is 3.5" at 25 yards accurate, and plenty light enough for a pocket in my jeans. 2x6s aside, just don't go telling ME the .380 caliber is as good as 9mm, which some seem to be saying. I know better through experience. I've killed many things with handguns, most of 'em hogs.
I can tell you this, I've taken multiple hogs with the .357 magnum, one recently with a 3" barrel 66 Taurus. I will not sell my .357s for a .380 ACP "hog gun". If you think it's as effective, fine, but don't go hog hunting with it. If you do, and the hog didn't rip your arms off for lunch, and you can reach the keyboard in your wheelchair, let us know how it went. Now, then, I'd prefer even my 9x19 Ruger P85 to any .380. It CAN fire 147 grain +P stuff. I'll still prefer my .357s, though, for nasty critters like this. I normally don't hunt hogs with .357, but I have taken a few with my Blackhawk and one with my Taurus 3". I have a lot of hogs on my place, gives me opportunities. I have tested a few on trapped hogs, too. I might have to shoot one in the shoulder sometime with the .380 and see how long it takes to expire, like maybe come back next week and see if it's dead, yet.
Yes, I understand this, is why I bother to own a .380. I rarely carry it, though, as my Kel Tec 9mm is nearly as small, is easier to shoot well, is 3.5" at 25 yards accurate, and plenty light enough for a pocket in my jeans. 2x6s aside, just don't go telling ME the .380 caliber is as good as 9mm, which some seem to be saying. I know better through experience. I've killed many things with handguns, most of 'em hogs.
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