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Does the US Army teach basic gun safety?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by FourTeeFive, Apr 17, 2008.

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  1. FourTeeFive

    FourTeeFive Member

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    http://www.bellinghamherald.com/256/story/383593.html

     
  2. Winchester 73

    Winchester 73 member

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    They certainly did in 1964.
    This sounds like cold blooded murder to me.No one with military training could be that stupid,IMO.
     
  3. FourTeeFive

    FourTeeFive Member

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    Certainly sounds like it. Maybe he's thinking a jury would buy his "I didn't know it was loaded" argument?
     
  4. 41magsnub

    41magsnub Member

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    They sure did in 1994, I remember an almost beating of a private in basic on the range when he swept a Drill Sergeant.

    That said there are a lot of smart folks in the Army, but at the same time there are folks in there who are not exactly America's best and brightest. I observed a lot of stupid things with firearms in the Army, I could buy this as an "accident".
     
  5. Winchester 73

    Winchester 73 member

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    Yes.And he only got 28 months for this crime.
    Thats very close to getting away with Murder 1,again IMO.
     
  6. aka108

    aka108 Member

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    Even the Navy taught us.
     
  7. John Wayne

    John Wayne Member

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    While I have no first-hand experience, most of what I've seen has made me concerned, to say the least.

    My roommate's cousin, who is currently in the U.S. Navy, was trying to sell me his M&P .40 before he was deployed. He was very knowledgable about guns, but when he showed me the pistol and demonstrated its various features, he did so while covering the muzzle with his hand and pulling the trigger! The magazine was removed, I guess he was trying to show how it wouldn't fire without the magazine inserted, but I don't think I'd risk losing a couple fingers in order to show off Smith and Wesson's safety design prowess :what: That, coupled with a range story about how he and other persons would fire one round out of the pistol and then try to shoot the ejected case while it was still in the air made me less than eager to be anywhere around him.

    While at Camp Leujeune, NC to see my best friend deployed, I noticed that several Marines paid no attention to where their weapon was pointed. I even noticed one Marine lying on the ground, his head propped against a backpack and 2" away from the muzzle of an M-249 SAW on a bipod!
     
  8. Frog48

    Frog48 Member

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    The story just doesnt wash. Regardless of whether the trigger pull was an accident, why was the CPL pointing the pistol at the SFC to begin with?
     
  9. pfc.pennington

    pfc.pennington Member

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    Well just let me say, I just went through basic training in aug 06. The army has drop the standard way down. They give people an m16 that I wouldnt trust with a slingshot. I can remember on more than one occaision, of accidental discharge.
     
  10. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    I've never been able to serve in the armed forces, but I'd assume they have LOTS of rules. I'd also think The Four Rules are a part of them.

    Sounds like murder to me too.
     
  11. Mikee Loxxer

    Mikee Loxxer Member

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    I get the impression that their safety training is lacking. A good friend of mine who had spent a year in Iraq went shooting with me one afternoon. We each had a rifle and were on the line ready to fire. My buddy shoots a three or four round group. Without saying anything he puts his rifle (which has a round in the chamber) on safe, sets it on the bench and starts walking down range while I am still on the line with a round in the chamber, safety off, and trigger on the finger. Needless to say I scolded him for this very serious infraction and was left with severe doubt as to how well the military trains it’s soldiers with respect to firearms safety.

    Maybe one has to adopt less stringent firearms handling practices in a combat zone but we weren’t in one of those and he should have known better.
     
  12. ATAShooter

    ATAShooter Member

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    Hell, even the Boyscouts are taught it.
     
  13. charon

    charon Member

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    There was rigid firearm safety instruction in the 1980s. In fact, going on my first civilian indoor range (unmonitored though) was a bit shocking by comparison and today I seek out controlled ranges.

    I do remember reading about an incident in one of the safety bulletins where someone in the que to go up to the firing line shot the soldier in front of him during a night fire. It was late into the night after a hard days training and he apparently started following the commands for the tower while in some sort of daze up to commence firing.
     
  14. NGIB

    NGIB Member

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    Jeez, even the Air Force did and we only shot 1 weapon and a total of 150 rounds in basic...
     
  15. Floppy_D

    Floppy_D Member In Memoriam

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    Sadly, in the military, it seems gun safety only becomes a big deal when something goes wrong. It's part of an annual General Military Training (that the average Joe clicks through on a computer in 10 seconds) and it's part of basic, but if the leaders in a command do not emphasize it, it will not be adhered to. If this young man thought he could point a firearm at a comrade, there was inadequate training.

    This does not excuse his actions, but points to the weaknesses that may have lead him to believe that his actions were acceptable.

    Edit: The firearm safety habits of servicemembers, from my experience, are either fantastic, or terrible, with little middle ground. I would not go to the range with a handful of people I have stood armed watches with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
  16. rero360

    rero360 Member

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    I agree with Floppy, everyone from my unit, being origionally infantry are all top notch when it comes to weapon safety. However some of the people we were deployed with...I wouldn't trust them with a plastic spork, but they were cage kickers, just never had that warrior mentality.
     
  17. CountGlockula

    CountGlockula Member

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    Sounds like Ayers just had a life lesson.

    Gun safety is taught, but what matters is applying it.
     
  18. another okie

    another okie Member

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    There's plenty of training. But remember you are dealing with 18 year olds, who have the capacity to forget everything they are taught five minutes later.
     
  19. AKCOP

    AKCOP Member

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    This is indeed a very sad incident that should not have happened. However teaching is one thing, always following what you are taught is another. I am not trying to justify what happened just saying that s-it happens and it is not always an intentional act, stupidity, yes.
    I certainly have had to deal with my share of accidental discharges by police officers who were trained and still found a way to be stupid. My prayers go out to the family of Sgt. Cooper and Cpl Ayers.
     
  20. spaceCADETzoom

    spaceCADETzoom Member

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    This isn't a safety issue. There is no need for an outlined rule that says not to point a loaded weapon at another person and pull the trigger. I'm not defaulting to "common sense," it is beyond common sense.

    THe convicted guy did all of that, knowingly. He's not "unsafe," he's darn-near homicidal. I'm not sure where anyone gets off in asking if "the army teaches gun safety." It explicitly states that the perpetrator KNEW keeping a loaded weapon on the FOB was illegal. If you knew how restrictive the army is about EVERYTHING (from motorcycles to cars to guns to exercise to walking to drinking water--it's the model of nanny-state)...you'd realize how absolutely maddeningly hilarious that question was.
     
  21. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    The Four Rules are not taught specifically. Yes common sense gun safety was taught, but a lot of things that we take for granted are left out. And I never heard any instuctors speak of the actual 4 rules as we know them. Also, we do a lot of dry firing, so fingers off the triggers at all times is not emphasised, nor is always checking a weapon when it leaves your sight. At least that was in Basic. Now I'm in Honduars doing MP stuff and we do clear our weapons when we're issued them and when we turn them in. Of course we're not allowed to carry with a chambered round either.

    There is a lot of rule shamming in the military in general. There are so many FMs and regs about everything, it's become commonplace to ignore some of them for the sake of efficiency though sometimes laziness as well.
     
  22. M203Sniper

    M203Sniper member

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    A Horrible way to go. "Friendly Fire; isn't" just doesn't cover it.


    They taught us how to shoot, the four basic rules, and a whole lot about the rate of fire for each weapon we handled it's range against point and area targets, indirect fire....hell I could type all day.


    Semper Fi.
     
  23. Bazooka Joe71

    Bazooka Joe71 Member

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    ***????????????????

    Are you kidding me?

    If that isn't cold blooded murder I don't know what is...And that 28 month sentence is more of a joke than this kid.:rolleyes:

    I'm not sure what his punishment should be, but there should be a vasectomy in there somewhere.
     
  24. Gator

    Gator Member

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    When I was in The Corps ('79-83) there was not much emphasis at all on gun safety. I would frequently admonish guys for pointing rifles at each other; the standard response was "but its not loaded". We were taught to clear our weapons, but not how to responsibly handle them after that.

    Then someone got shot, but things didn't change. :banghead:
     
  25. Sato Ord

    Sato Ord Member

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    My first inclination was to agree that this guy had used the "I didn't know it was loaded" excuse to get away with murder, and that is still a possibility.

    However, when I think back to my original MOS and those who were stationed in a support company with me I remember all of the idiots I wouldn't have trusted with water pistol; loaded or unloaded.

    In the Rangers we knew a bit more about weapons and treated them with respect.

    I'm sure that the officers who were trying this case took the soldiers job and his familiarity with weapons into account, so I won't sit here and try to armchair quarterback this one.
     
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