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DoJ ca, Made me turn in my ar lower

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Sgt Stevo, Jun 28, 2006.

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  1. Sgt Stevo

    Sgt Stevo Member

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    weird one guys, I decided to get rid of my off list ar lower. I have a friend who owns an LE supply store.

    I took it in, He too k the lower already built with Bushmaster parts and some other stuff for trade on Sig 226 in 40.

    I had called DOJ with the number my friend gave me from my cell. The guy at doj I talked to asked me were I was turning it in. he said it would be fine. then he called back My friend and said, "The lower is contraband." MY Friend had to turn it into the PD. I lost all that money. Plus what he gave me for the trade.

    I am pissed. The DOJ guy also said. "Anyone with one of these is in trouble."


    Then he said, " If want a M-16 join the reserves." I did not bother to tell him I am retired Army.

    Now I am really pissed. This guy was a disrectful fool. Not to mention, he lied and put my friend on the spot. Just FYI, stevo........:cuss:
     
  2. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Member

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    Is he right? Legally, I mean . . .

    :confused:
     
  3. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    Was it actually a M-16 receiver or is he too stupid to know the difference between select fire and semi auto?
    Does off list mean preban? Good thing they have those laws in CA to keep law abiding citizens outgunned. They aren't 'profeshinal' enough. :barf:
     
  4. HankB

    HankB Member

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    Tell me, did your "friend" turn in the whole rifle including all the internal parts, or did he do the "friendly" thing, strip the lower, and return all the internals to you?

    Did your "friend" get a receipt for the turn-in and provide it to you?

    Did CA DOJ provide you with a cite of the law defining your specific lower as contraband?

    And you weren't even offered a chance to take it out of state?

    This all sounds very strange . . . I'd say there's a better than even chance that someone in CA DOJ is now the proud owner of that lower.
     
  5. ProficientRifleman

    ProficientRifleman Member

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    **********? Sane and rational people still live there?

    Ronnie Barrett said he will not sell his .50 cal. rifles to any governmental agencies.

    If the stupid ammo fiasco becomes law in **********, I'm looking for companies like Black Hills and Cor-Bon to say the same.

    How about this: the entire firearms industry should boycott the Peoples Republik of Kalifprnia. They don't want more guns, so the industry should supply them with none!
     
  6. billwiese

    billwiese Member

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    What brand of AR lower was it? - specific make and model on the side panel please.
    What gun shop was this?
    What DOJ employee gave you & the shop this info?

    (If it was a regular Bushmaster lower, it was not off-list - but I am assuming it's not as you specifically used the term 'off-list'.

    PM me if you don't feel like telling publicly.

    The DOJ dispenses wrong information regularly. Many DOJ folks may not know that 2000 Kasler decision was superseded by the 2001 Harrott decision, which requires specific listing to be regarded as banned.

    If it was:

    (1) not listed by make and model as either a Colt AR15 or a specifically listed series member on the Kasler list (Calif Code of Regulation sec 979.11), and:

    (2) it were not illegally configured with a pistol grip and/or telestock and/or flash hider (i.e., evilf features along with an open magwell, or if it were in legal gripless configuration (fixed stock, no flash hider, no pistol grip)

    ... it is indeed legal.

    You may be able to get it back and/or seek relief.

    Calguns.NET has the best discussion of off-list AR/AK situation. You'll be able to discuss things rationally there without all the anti-Californian BS from out-of-state posters common to here and AR15.COM

    Gun stores in San Jose are actively selling off-list lowers. They wouldn't, if they were illegal - gun shops selling off-list lowers have been audited aggressively and are still in business and are not charged with anything. One of them in SJ has a noted gun lawyers on retainer whose office is just down the road from them.

    How come you didn't fight, protest, assert your rights, assert legality?
     
  7. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    In the land of make believe.
    I apologize. I know you feel to have to obey stupid laws.
     
  8. Thylacine

    Thylacine Member

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    If it came down to it, I would butcher the the lower so bad it could not be used for anything other than a paper weight. What is the penalty for not complying with their unconstitutional requests?
     
  9. ryoushi

    ryoushi Member

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    Need more info

    If you built your rifle with a non-fixed magazine and a pistol grip, well yes it is illegal. The whole point of buying an OLL was to either secure the magazine or leave off any evil features such as flash suppressors, collapsable stocks and pistol grips.

    If you built your rifle to comply with current law however, it sounds like you just bought what DOJ was telling you and caved in. No new laws have been passed since you purchased your OLL but this hasn't stopped the CA DOJ from publishing several contradictory memos but they have no bearing yet as they are not law. CA Legislature is trying to pass a new bill but it is still hung up in committee.

    It would be helpfull in the future to give the name of the dealer and any DOJ personnel as there is so much BS being spewed on the internet over this issue.

    As for good solid info listen to billweise and your local DA.
     
  10. Ira Aten

    Ira Aten member

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    Department of "Justice"?

    Right.
     
  11. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    I do believe you got snookered.
     
  12. billwiese

    billwiese Member

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    He may have confused the situation by saying it has a Bushmaster lower parts kit (like that's relevant to anything) and somehow the DOJ doofus thought it was a Bushmaster.

    Bill Wiese
    San Jose CA
     
  13. Sgt Stevo

    Sgt Stevo Member

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    I PM bill. I dont want to put the name on the internet of the Police supply store in san Jose. As this would be rude. If you want it. PM me. The guy I talked to at doj was a tool. but i dont remember his name. I even tried to be nice. he did not.
     
  14. Fletchette

    Fletchette Member

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    Sounds a lot like, "if you want a book join the government approved library". :barf:
     
  15. stevelyn

    stevelyn Member

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    Bummer........But I'll bet the weather is nice.
     
  16. Draven32

    Draven32 Member

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    *BAM*

    look up 'ripeness' in a legal dictionary

    you now have it.
     
  17. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

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    Lesson learned.

    Next time, sell it to someone from one of the remaining free states.
     
  18. Malum Prohibitum

    Malum Prohibitum Member

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    SGT Stevo!

    Sgt Stevo wrote, "Now I am really pissed. This guy was a disrectful fool. Not to mention, he lied and put my friend on the spot."


    Okay, so what are you going to do?


    :cuss: Will accomplish nothing. Neither will :banghead: Once you are finished doing this :fire: , you need to lay down a plan of action and then execute it. And I would not delay, or there may be nothing to recover or no way to trace it.
     
  19. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Call the local ATF office and speak with the agent in charge.
    Let him know that its a legal lower, and that you fear the guy at the DOJ is going to put it to an illicit use, since he should know this as well.

    Since the lower was legally transferred to you and there is a yellow form with your name on it you dont want it to end up being sold to criminals.
    Ask them to investigate and let you know what the DOJ is doing with your legally owned receiver. Remind them of the Rampart case, and tell them you are afraid and need the federal govt to enforce federal law.:evil:
     
  20. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    No good deed goes unpunished.

    Why can't people just shut up.

    AFS
     
  21. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    widespread civil disobedience

    all over CA a lot of it on purpose and a lot because no one knows all the laws.

    I thank God I finally moved.

    I miss all my cool gun buddies at Jackson Arms in the Bay Area, and all the comraderie that comes with being a persecuted minority.

    Whenever I need the smell of stale urine and need to get hassled by bums
    I can visit SF:barf:
     
  22. Sgt Stevo

    Sgt Stevo Member

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    I am just gonna let it go. I never should have been stupid enough to trade it in , in the first place.

    BUT, I wanted to make sure anyone else, who might think about doing this does not.

    This was my bad.:barf:
     
  23. billwiese

    billwiese Member

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    OK folks, relax, there may have been some configuration issues. It apparently wasn't a bare lower receiver (!!) and Steve may have gotten "a bit wild" with its configuration :)
    Stevo...

    Sounds like you're lucky, actually - losing a lower is way better than a felony charge.

    Your problem wasn't trading it in, your problem was (apparently) how you set it up.

    But these things won't happen if you comply with the strictures outlined in the FAQ on Calguns.NET.

    Anyone not familiar w/details of AW law and dealing with off-list lowers in CA and that hasn't read the FAQ is asking for trouble - and shouldn't be dealing w/OLLs.


    Bill Wiese
    San Jose, CA
     
  24. Creeping Incrementalism

    Creeping Incrementalism Member

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    Bill, I'm guessing the guy had an open mag well?

    They pretty much all are. Their answers to any ambiguous questions (which are most of them, in CA) are usually either wrong, or non-commital ("the decision is up to the individual cop/DA".

    CalGuns.net is the best place to ask your California gun questions.
     
  25. billwiese

    billwiese Member

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    I don't have all the details, but let's just say Steve got 'overenthusiastic' over features and it wasn't a bare lower. And I don't think there was a fixed mag.


    Bill Wiese
    San Jose
     
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