Domestic Violence convictions

[scrat]

Omg i cant believe all that i have just read. same time though i guess this happens every day. Im so glad my wife and i dont argue. I guess we are both past those stages. I cant remember the last time we had an arguement. If we dont agree on something we dont argue about it. Wow.

I do have a question though. My neighbor Now in his late 20's has always talked about getting a gun. He has an old 16 gauge single shotgun. thats it. i kinda always laughed at. Since i have a closet full of guns. Any how we were talking one night and i guess when he was 18 he got busted for something dealing with drugs. A possesion from what i understand. He did go to jail im not too sure how long never really asked after that. He did say it cost his parents a lot of money in legal fees. Well its been about 10 years since this. He was asking me if i knew if he could legally purchase a handgun now. I told him to go to the DOJ website and fill out one of those forms to see if he is eligible to purchase one. Same time now that i read through this i wonder if he can get his record expunged. Same time how much does that cost im sure that is not cheap. I guess the bottom line is we all have choices in life and its important to make the right choices. Especially when your young. Because you never know what lies ahead in your future. 10-15-20 years from now you dont want to have a past record from when you were young.

 

[2nd 41]

Held a knife to his wife's throat? I can't sympathize.
My 1st marriage was so bad I took my Labrador and left. It was that bad. I left everything and started over. And life is real good today.(22years later) Glad I did what I had to do.

 

[HOME DEPOT GEORGE]

Scrat-He can get his record expunged, it cost me about 6000 dollars if I remember right.

 

[another okie]

In some cultures it's normal for a spouse to extract violent revenge when cheated on. It's no longer normal or accepted in our culture, but some folks are slow to get the message.

It's a last vestige of the honor culture that had many bad aspects, such as this one, but also served as a check on rude and offensive behavior.

Notice that it's not that we are never allowed to use violence. We can use it when we face a direct threat to our own lives.

It's that a cheating spouse is no longer considered serious enough to justify violence. Under Napoleon's code a husband who caught his wife cheating was considered to be temporarily insane and therefore not liable for murdering both parties.

 

[otasan]

I have NO SYMPATHY for the guy who threatens his wife with deadly force in such a manner. Adultery is a terrible thing, but it is not a capital crime.

 

[shadowalker]

I have absolutely no doubt if I threatened my wife in such a way police would be responding to a shooting and rightfully so.

He deserves to loose his freedom as well. It was a very poor decision made by someone who was out of control and clearly has the inability to regulate themselves.

It hurts but if you really love them you act like a mature person and walk away, not throw stuff around, assault them, threaten to or actually kill them.

Not really sure how I feel about a lifetime ban on RKBA, I normally don't favor such things but I think it may be reasonable to restrict it for a good period of time.

 

[Rmeju]

If some sort of bar to possession of firearms against domestic abusers could properly and constitutionally be codified into law, your friend would be the poster child of the guy who it should apply to.

If his response to being pushed is to draw a knife and threaten his philandering wife/gf with murder, then in no way should he own, or even have access to, a firearm.

IMO, $11,000 of anger management classes and 10 years on the blackball list (while a somewhat extreme length of time) would make me feel a lot better about him owning a firearm later.

Reid

 

[coloradokevin]

Around here a state misdemeanor or felony DOMV charge results in a lifetime ban.

This guy sounds like someone who shouldn't own guns. The charge for that behavior would be "felony menacing" in CO, an F5 felony. If he actually injured her at all with the knife, he would jump up to 2nd degree assault (which is generally an F4 felony, though heat of passion may reduce it to an F6). If he caused serious bodily injury with the knife, he is now looking at an F3 felony.

The point is, any of the possible outcomes when conducting yourself in that manner land with a felony charge (one which it sounds like he worked down to a state misdeamenor).

Interestingly, from what I've been told, municipal DOMV charges do not result in the revocation of your 2nd ammendment rights... I can't swear to that, but it is sort of the rumor at work.

Also, the argument about the spiteful woman causing problems to an innocent man is often brought up... and has been in this thread as well. Keep in mind:

1) To lose your rights, you need to be convicted in court, or plead guilty to the charge. Simply being accused is not sufficient.

2) If you honestly believe that your spouse/girlfriend/etc is the type of person who would lie to the authorities just to make your life miserable, perhaps you need to find a different romantic interest in your life!


Also, to the OP... In most states, whether or not the victim (be it a woman or man) wishes to press charges is irrelevant. If we show up and find probable cause that a DOMV law violation has occured, we are REQUIRED by law to arrest the primary aggressor. Colorado handles DOMV this way, as do many other states. Personally, I'm not fond of that aspect of the law... I feel that all victims were created equal, and people need to be smart enough to look out for themselves (in other words, if the victim isn't bothered by the beating enough to want to report it, and isn't willing to help themselves, oh well).

But, my personal biases aside, that is the law... and I always follow it. To me, it isn't worth losing my job because someone is being difficult when I arrive to take the report! If your spouse assaults you, you should report it. If you choose not to, don't call the police!

Either way, your friend sounds like someone with some serious issues. Holding a knife to a woman's throat and threatening her is not a very manly thing to do.

 

[woodybrighton]

a knife at somebody's throat 5mm slip and its murder
a handgun makes an accidental killing even easier
10 years down the road he may have grown up

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

I had to stop when I read this:

I certainly don't support people who are abusers, and I believe the prosecutor abused their power not only with my friend, but probably with many others.

Many couples have fights, and many people have stressful relationships.

Many couples, have fights over money. Getting hit with having to pay 11K for anger management because of a spousal quarrel is not something that I think would help any couple who already have financial issues.

I'm sure it has been beaten to death already, but bears repeating ad nauseum.

Your friend got off easy if he was allowed to plead to a misdemeanor. He committed a felonious assault and the prosecutor let him off easy. Certainly there was no abuse of power here, except on the part of your abusing friend.

Your friend is fortunate that there is no room in prison for him, 'cause that's where he belongs and I'm glad that he can't have a firearm of any type, ever, anywhere, for the rest of his life.

If you take the act of putting a knife to somebody's throat and dismiss it by calling it a "spousal quarrel" arising from a "stressful relationship" then you need to re-evaluate yourself, too. That's simply ridiculous to make those kind of excuses.

 

[k_dawg]

yes/no. There are two [ seperate issues ].

1) The second amendment right should only be surrendered upon the conviction of a felony. Never a misdemeanour.

2) This gentlemen commited a felony, and should have been charged with one.

 

[2nd 41]

If I caught my wife with another man...I'd say Yo pal...I have to do this...you don't.

 

[megatronrules]

I've been where your friends were before and can tell you I would never respond this way. any woman or man who would cheats on a spouse is garbage in my book and simply not worth it. I had my colt 1911 concealed on me under a sweater when my last girlfriend admitted to cheating on me,and you know what I did? I called her some choice words and turned and walked out of her apartment and her life never to return. never at any time did it cross my mind to threaten her with bodily harm. No your friends shouldn't own a gun its people like them that give us responsible gun owners a bad name.

Think about it anyone that cheats is a crumby human being,again think about it,do you really want to be a felon for life over the likes of them?

 

[jaholder1971]

I think most of you are ignorant,and miss the point,I don't care if two poeple beat the sh$$ out off each other,nothing should take your 2a away...nothing..say a guy beats his wife goe's to jail and lose's his 2a rights,doe's that stop him from thinking,if he wish he can still get a firearm ,bat, knife a fn rock for that matter ,if someone is determined they'll find a way to do what ever it is there going to do ,taking 2a from abusers,is only a infringment, on God given rights,it's one step to take your 2a away you d@#$ a@$ ,whats next ,speeding, wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!! most of you say id leave if my wife/husban was caught cheating,well then you don't love them very much,ill just walk away no problem, bull,

Wow man, just, Wow!

Some folks have obviously forgotten that with every one of your civil rights comes responsibilities.

With this sort of logic, everyone in prison today should be allowed to arm themselves as they see fit as not arming them would violate their 2nd amendment rights.

 

[RancidSumo]

Woah, the person who revived this thread needs the calm down. The person deserves to be locked up not just loose his RKBA. Mabey after a while he should be able to get them back but I don't know.

 

[DCR]

Want to know just how far this outrageous law goes?

I have enjoyed the thread so far, but there's a much, much deeper level to it. I don't have the time to post the links right now, but will when I have time. Or you can do a search on the following key words:

"misdemeanor crime of domestic violence"

It's rather long, so I'm going to abbreviate it MCDV

As we all know, the law prohibits anyone convicted of an MCDV from owning or possessing a firearm or ammunition. So, if a person is not convicted of "domestic battery," "domestic assault," "domestic violence," or whatever name a state has given to its specific MCDV's, they don't lose their right to RKBA or ammunition, right?

WRONG!!!!!

Some folks have taken plea agreements to non-MCDV offenses (misdemeanors of course) like simple battery or assault, or even disturbing the peace - offenses that do not specifically characterize the "victim" as a spouse or household member - on the belief that since it isn't specified as an MCDV in their state, they won't lose their gun rights. And boy were they ever surprised when they were denied their next gun purchase or arrested, charged and CONVICTED of felony charges for unlawful possession of a firearm.

ATF and other agencies, as well as some state and local governmental entities, have started looking to the underlying FACTS of the case - the charges and factual allegations - and if the underlying facts, plus the wording of the statute/law/ordinance add up to an act of violence or aggression against a spouse or household member, they deem it an MCDV and declare the person convicted ineligible to possess a firearm.

You won't have to look far on this one - there are federal district court convictions, and federal circuit courts of appeal decisions upholding this practice.

I know that the US Attorney for Idaho has issued a statement on this very topic indicating how he views the law and his office's position on such prosecutions, but haven't located it yet to include for reference. Problem is, though, even if his office has elected not to take such an interpretation and prosecute in this fashion, it doesn't really someone who gets denied a purchase from some unknowing, uncaring, faceless, nameless petty bureaucratic minion at the national instant background check center who sees "arrest - domestic violence - convicted - disturbing the peace" and issues the denial on that basis.

Oh, yes, and remember, you CAN appeal denials, however long that may take...but if the agency's policy is to look to the underlying charge and facts, you're going to get how far? :banghead: And remember that ATF office citizens were supposed to be able to file appeals because their prior felony conviction or MCDV was dismissed pursuant to a withheld judgment...the one that ATF never asks for funding for...and congress has consequently never funded...and the courts have said that just because the law created such an office doesn't mean it has to be funded, staffed, or operational because it's congress' discretion to not fund it, and therefore they won't issue a writ of mandamus ordering ATF to start accepting and processing citizens' appeals?

Bottom line - there are no guarantees that anyone will ever be able to possess a firearm or ammunition after an arrest for any MCDV unless the charge is fully dismissed before trial, they get a pardon or total expungement after conviction, or they are ACQUITTED!

Seems the only option is to fight any such charge fully and vigorously and not compromise - but at what cost? And believe me, it will be tough - federal STOP (I forget the acronym's meaning) grants pour hundreds of millions of dollars into local law enforcement and prosecutor's offices for technology, training, trips to desirable destinations for training and workshops, and other specialized staff.....yes, there are DV "advocates," counselors, secretaries, and full-time prosecutors who only prosecute DV cases whose whole salary, benefits, etc. are paid for by those grants. The funding also pays for specialized "family courts" or "Domestic Violence courts" --yes, including some or all of those courts' judges' salaries -- and the mandatory counselling/education/rehabilitation programs for the convicted (who also have to pay to take those classes!), battered women's shelters, hotlines, support group therapists...you can imagine how far the list goes on.

Domestic Violence has become quite an industry, and local governments are not at all interested in losing those fat grant funds - and they will fight vigorously to keep them by ensuring as many convictions and as few plea agreements as possible so they can show how their programs are "working" and they should be given the same amount of money or more for the next fiscal year.

I don't have the answer - but I do know that it's imperative to fight.

I'll welcome comments, criticisms, and suggestions alike!

DCR

 

[Zoogster]

DCR, there is many abuses with this law. Yes there is entire professions that exist to deal with such issues, and yes they do have an incentive to see more prosecutions.

Domestic violence "assault" can exist just in a heated argument where no physical contact is made. Assault is the threat or implied use of force. Being angry, arguing, and in close proximity can be considered a threat.

However the initial case mentioned in this thread is a really bad one to argue your beliefs in.
A guy commited felonies, used a weapon to assault and threaten someone, and the domestic violence statute was not even necessary to remove his RKBA.
The only reason that law even relates is the plea bargain removed the charges for the felonies he actualy commited.

So please make a new thread about the issue rather than argue from a several month old thread defending a violent predator that commited more than a misdemeanor.