Don't encourage your murderer!

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Phaedrus/69, Feb 4, 2021.

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  1. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    Got this link from Claude Werner's email letter, and it's a doozy! It appears a couple had a long-running feud with their neighbor across the street which came to a head over shoveled snow. Supposedly the couple was tossing snow from their parking spot onto the neighbor's property. An argument ensued and he left, returning with a firearm. Apparently the couple continued to spout obscenities at him even as he pointed the gun at them, reportedly screaming "Do it!" at the guy. Unsurprisingly, he did it, shooting both of them. He then allegedly went back to his house and retrieved another gun to shoot them some more. If there's any silver lining at all to the story it's that the alleged shooter then shot himself, removing the burden of sorting it all out at trial.

    A while ago we had a thread, something to the effect of "you don't know who you're messing with", and boy howdy is that ever true! Over the last few years there have been high profile cases where people have been shot over cell phone use at the movie theater, a disagreement over handicapped parking spaces, what type of things are appropriate to leave by the dumpster, refusal to wear a mask, etc. I think we've seen ample evidence it may indeed be wisest to check oneself before one wrecks oneself. It may feel good to exact revenge on people for petty poor behavior. But next time you scream obscenities at a neighbor who lets his dog crap in your yard, ask yourself is this something worth dying over, or killing? If the answer is no (and really, the answer is virtually always NO) then maybe dial it down a notch.
     
  2. TomJ
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    TomJ Contributing Member

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    Proverbs 15:1 “A gentle answer turns away wrath, but hard words stir up anger.” Somebody should have told the couple in the story this. Is it stating the obvious to advise people not to dare someone to shoot you?
     
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  3. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    Buddy of mine sent me the video with audio.
    I don't recommend it. Just when you think it's done, it gets worse.

    Whatever was going on there wasn't about the snow being shovelled.

    Be a good neighbor, don't provoke people, if someone shows you a gun in a threatening manner best to believe they intend to use it.
     
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  4. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Exactly why I cringe every time SWMBO honks at someone. :uhoh:
     
  5. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    I would also add that of all the people to antagonize, your neighbors are some of the worst! After all, you'll potentially have to interact with or tolerate them for years. I go out of my way to cultivate a good relationship with neighbors if at all possible, although generally I don't really interact with them much. Generally being courteous and pleasant will go a long ways. Of course, many of us have heard some "neighbors from hell" stories or lived them ourselves, and it's not always possible to have rational interactions with irrational people.
     
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  6. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    if you tell somebody to shoot et al. you, and they do it, I think that should be a mitigating circumstance.
     
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  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Surely you jest.
     
  8. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    Yep. When a man tells you who he is, listen!
     
  9. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    https://www.publishedreporter.com/2021/02/04/video-bizarre-murder-caught-on-surveillance-video-after-argument-erupts-over-snow-shoveling-in-pennsylvania-turns-into-murder-suicide/

    It doesn’t seem like they were happy neighbors. None of them seem to have ever heard the term de-escalation. Maybe too much TV?

    Everyone dead certainly makes the snow, that would have melted away no matter where is was, seem like a pointless thing to get worked up about or agitate your neighbor with.

    Can certainly tell a change in tone, once it’s too late. Almost looks like she is drawing while after she puts down the shovel and starts yelling “Go ahead...go ahead.”

    May have been better to call the police before things went completely out of control. If anyone of the three had done so, they might all be alive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
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  10. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

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    My sense is they had a toxic relationship for a long, long, long time.
    Something like this does not just happen over where snow is plowed.
    Very unfortunate. I feel bad for the innocent bystander neighbors, too.
     
  11. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    I read those words this very morning.
     
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  12. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    FWIW the couple that died, no matter horrible they may have been, did not deserve to die over this. The shooter that did this...good riddance.
     
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  13. JeeperCreeper

    JeeperCreeper Member

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    I would suggest everyone to watch the video and listen to the audio before weighing in with full confidence.

    It's pure evil and trash all around.

    Hard to watch, but also not fully unsurprising.

    It's one thing to read about it and form an opinion... it's another thing to see and hear it. It's chilling.

    Regardless, remember to keep your humanity everyone.
     
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  14. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    Good point! The video is really shocking. As Griz22 says they may be horrible but didn't deserve to die, and he's right...but you also get the sense that maybe the world isn't missing much with them gone. It seems (at least from the last crappy moments of their lives) that three terrible people collided in a disaster that was almost fated by the behaviors they embraced.
     
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  15. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

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    Viewing from a Strategy, Tactics, and Training perspective, one wonders why the Goys did not immediately attempt to flee once Spaide commenced shooting? It would seem by running away, perhaps a moment of sanity/clarity may have returned to Spaide in those extra 4-5 seconds?
     
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  16. Tinman357

    Tinman357 Member

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    This brings back memories of an old Master Chief telling a young, stupid boot, (me) "Kid, don't let your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird butt"

    RIP Master Chief. Your advice served me well for the last 38 years. Rest easy. I remember everything you taught me.
     
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  17. HowieG

    HowieG Member

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    I didn't know those people so I can't say, but there are certainly people in this world that deserve to die. Let's not pretend that isn't true. Hitler certainly deserved it. Stalin. Pol Pot. Many others unnamed, past and future. Shoveled snow was the capstone here, but we don't know what went on before.
     
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  18. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    "the alleged shooter then shot himself"
    giphy.gif
     
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  19. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    "Dangerous business, being rude to strangers".... and that goes double for neighbors and family... As a young rookie, fresh out of the Academy I was ignorant about just what terrible actions our species is capable of.. some of the lessons I learned should have come with a box of bandaids - but I did learn.... Years later these sorts of things were gospel. Very glad I'm long out of that world.

    That FBI shooting this week by the way... about 25 minutes from my house.
     
  20. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    No, it had nothing to do with the couple, the shooter, or the snow.

    It was the evil gun, which just shot them itself. I don’t doubt the media will somehow portray in such a fashion.
     
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  21. HPCadm17

    HPCadm17 Member

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    When I watched the entire video I thought of, of all things, school shooters. Someone who may be unstable to begin with being bullied for years until they're pushed over the edge and finally snap. Based on the described behavior of the couple, they had been bullying their neighbor for a long time. That doesn't excuse the outcome in any way, but I can't imagine anyone with any knowledge of these people or their background being shocked or surprised it happened.
     
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  22. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Yeah, that’s why my first post at 10:17 was edited and I added the link once I found the video.

    It’s also easy to see that their words escalated the situation to their end. I imagine the killers last words were a direct quote of the last victim.

    Certainly seems all involved were short sighted and no effort was given towards the long term implications of their actions.

    Certainly poor strategies on how to handle the situation all around.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
  23. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    This could be the subject of a new series:

    "What NOT to say when someone is holding a gun on you...."

    I guess they weren't dead enough, one account says he went back in, got another gun, and shot them some more times.
     
  24. armedwalleye

    armedwalleye Member

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    Not trying to validate the shooter in any way, but, as a life lesson, if you push somebody to the point of daring them to do something, don't be surprised if, at some point, they do just exactly that. Perhaps that's why they didn't flee when the shooting started....flat out shock that the neighbor was actually doing it.....
     
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  25. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

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    Both of the Goys were clearly injured (yet still alive) until Spaide returned.
     
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