Don't know what is the fascination is with Russian firearms?

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Honestly, every country has come out with winners, losers and "what the heck were you thinking" in their rifle and pistol designs. One could also take a poke at the fetish some folks have for all things German.

Russia has had some winners, considering their requirements and manufacturing capabilities at various points in time. The Mosins, AK's, Makarovs have all been time time-tested, reliable, low-cost products.
 
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That "low cost" thing is a fallacy. They were produced by what amounted to a captive labor force. They are cheap for us now because they are being sold as surplus. I assure you that a new manufacture M-N rifle, Makarov pistol, Nagant revolver, or AK rifle would absolutely NOT be inexpensive if produced in a western industrialized nation. Just imagine what an M-N would cost if newly produced by FN or Remington for the consumer market. Imagine the cost of a newly produced Nagant revolver from S&W.
I repeat: these things are cheap surplus NOW. They, like other vintage arms, won't stay that way.
 
I'm assuming from the "Afghanistan" comments that he is one of the many US soldiers occupying... erm... based in Germany and not a native German.
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I thought that at first, but the grammatical/spelling mistakes made me think otherwise.
 
Russians...

The Soviet/Russian philosophy has always been; if it ain't broke - don't fix it. They like simple designs that function and don't look to upgrade unless it's for a VERY good reason. The only exceptions were the Cold War arms race where bigger was better (AN-226, TYPHOON Class subs, BLACKJACK bombers, etc. that were more style than function). They're great weapons, but the Russians aren't into bells and whistles with the possible exception of covert listening devices :eek:. I don't look at them as an either/or proposition. I've got Western stuff and Russian/Soviet too. So far there hasn't been a fight in the safe yet...:)
 
The only problem with a mosin is its safety. I hate it. But that gun has put food on my table quite often. For folks that can't afford a $2000 for a scoped 3/4 moa rifle, there is no better option. Yes, there are better guns but they cost a lot more.
 
Well, they haven't been slave labor since the fall of communism, and they've still been building many of the same goods on the same gear now in privatized and semi-privatized firms. One could also argue the point about slave labor at all - definitely oppressed workers in an artificial economy.

And they weren't slave labor building Mosins in private companies from 1891 through 1917. And, those private companies included Remington and Westinghouse here in the U.S. - still cheaper to build per unit. than the Springfield 1903 or Model 1917.
 
TheFallGuy said:
The only problem with a mosin is its safety. I hate it. But that gun has put food on my table quite often. For folks that can't afford a $2000 for a scoped 3/4 moa rifle, there is no better option. Yes, there are better guns but they cost a lot more.
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Funny thing about 2 grand 3/4 moa rifles, I have a Mosin Nagant 91/30 that I bought for $100 (with a full year warranty, no less) from Gander Mountain when they were available locally. I hand picked it myself. Spent another hundred on a decent scope mount and mediocre BSA scope.

It will shoot an honest 3/4 MOA with 174 grain Sierra MatchKing bullets in handloads. for $200 bucks and a little elbow grease to clean it up I have a rifle that I wouldn't trade for one of those 1 to 2K hunting rifles. Besides, if I bang this one up, in the brush, I don't have to feel guilty about it. Spend more time putting food on the table than worrying about damaging the "food getter".
 
for the materials and tooling available russian arms are an inventive solution. almost assuredly there are more accurate weapons for each class of russian arm, but are there more reliable? bottom line russian arms just work
 
Hey my fellow european, don't know what you tried in your life, but if you come close to me I will let you try REAL russian weapons manufactured in Russia, and you won't dare calling them "throw-away" again.

I have the chance to own a real AKS-74U manufactured in Tula in 1989, along with a genuine Russian Makarov from 1979 and a Mosin Nagant M44. Try them, and change your mind.

DSC_0962.jpg
 
The Mosin has killed more people than smallpox.
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I'd like to see a statistic on that, not that i'm trying to disprove you but I want some evidence to back that up next time I use that quote to someone's face.

I think RFFS (Russian Firearm Fascination Syndrome) has to do with the fact they honestly they have made some good guns, provided that you inspect them before purchase because honestly the best gun design in the world mass produced will turn out a few lemons. On the other hand I personally think Russian names sound awesome and on occasion you probably get to educate people on the history of Mosin-Nagant rifles, since at some times it seems everyone in America thinks they can tell you everything about the Colt or Smith & Wesson names.
 
Snake Doc that picture does nothing for me but remind me that the AK is made of stamped beer cans. Just because it goes bang and is cheap doesn't make it a quality weapon. This rifle was designed for a peasant army that didn't have any marksmanship skills and couldn't be counted on to maintain it.

I can't imagine a western arms manufacturer trying to pass off a similar design as a quality firearm; they would be laughed at in these forums.

By the way I am not German. I am a retired US Army Officer working under a DOD contract in Germany.
 
Just because it goes bang and is cheap doesn't make it a quality weapon.
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OK, How about because it goes bang every single time you pull the trigger no matter what, does so with more than acceptable accuracy (in quality variants), and has proven itself a remarkable weapon in every single war its been in, which is pretty much all of them for quite some time now.
Just because the M4 looks nice and is elegantly constructed, and is quite acurate doesn't make it a quality weapon. It takes more than 5 stars in just one or two columns.
I can't imagine a western arms manufacturer trying to pass off a similar design as a quality firearm; they would be laughed at in these forums.
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Gun design is not a beauty contest. From an objective standpoint the AK-47 has a track record that is the envy of every single other intermediate caliber weapon ever designed.
 
Well how about this one, and it is Chinese made at that! It may be stamped but it will "take a beating and keep on ticking."

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Com Bloc guns are like old Plymouth Valiants. Nothing fancy at all but they will do what they're supposed to do. I have a Makarov and a Tokarev. They are definitely not junk; they're the most reliable things I own. The Makarov is an absolute marvel.

hinton03:
I don't own an AK but the rest of the planet seems to use 'em to good effect. Makarovs and AKs are "throwaways?" They're known as just the opposite. Are you just trying to get folks to start loudly buzzing?
 
Hate, I mean HATE, Russian guns. Maybe, it was growing up a military brat during the Cold War. Maybe, it was the way the DIs brainwashed us (literally) in basic. Maybe, it's the way they all look like something you'd find abandoned in a dumpster after a farm sale.

I know it's semi-irrational, but for what ever the reason, you couldn't pay me to own one. It's just me. Other than a little friendly teasing, I don't dis anyone who likes them. I understand all the reasons, advantages, and history that makes them significant.

Fact is there's not single Russian military item that would past mustard with the US Milatary. Now, or in the past. Not one single gun, tank, airplane, or ship.

Russian people are cool. Russian history, fascinating. Kicked Germany's ass for us in WWII, thank you very much. First man in space, Russian. Vodka, yes please. Russian arts & culture... okay, who am I kidding?. What do I know about the arts & culture? I'm told, and I believe, it's very high brow. Still, Russian guns.... yuck!
 
Warsaw Pact and Russian firearms are built to last. They do have some shortcomings but the Russians value reliability, dependability and durability over ergonomics and accuracy. Russians expect their rifles to fire when the trigger is squeezed.

AKs in particular have earned its reputation time and time again for superior reliability. You can dig them up and shoot them or watch an armored vehicle drag one through the mud then fire it. You can fire it with half pound of sand in the reciever. The bolts don't break like some western rifles ala Ar15 after a few thousand rounds. Gas Keys don't sheer off and disable your rifle. You don't even have to get all the comsoline off to shoot reliably.
 
I'm a gun snob (50+ high end German weapons) and a retired Army officer that used Western and Combloc weapons in combat and my personal opinion (n=1 for those statisticians) is:
- My makarov is one of my favorite pistols and a far better pistol than my Walther PP (100% reliable and 1 hole groups at 10 yards)
- My Mosins are simple, but great shooters. We have a ball with them.
- My Russian SKS is one of my favorite rifles (up there with my G3)
- AK's are great lead sprayers and lots of fun. Insanely reliable (better than any AR I've ever touched)
- If you don't get Russian guns then you just don't get it : )
 
Fact is there's not single Russian military item that would past mustard with the US Milatary. Now, or in the past. Not one single gun, tank, airplane, or ship.
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What about the the Vietnam era M16?

The M16 was billed as self-cleaning when it was in fact not.

The rifle was issued to troops without cleaning kits or instruction on how to clean the rifle.

The rifle was tested and approved with the use of a Dupont IMR powder that was switched to a ball powder that increased both wear and fouling.

The lack of a chrome liner for the barrel and chamber created a corrosion problem and contributed to brass case swelling and extraction problems.

Lack of a forward assist rendered the rifle inoperable in combat when it jammed.


While your Russian AK that would not pass mustard is built to move the gas away from the operating system, and built with generous tolerances.

Oh and I own both, weapon systems, in the military I depended on one and feared the other.
 
hinton,

The Russian guns and I have seen are junk. Here in the USA many are paying high prices for military guns. Its a passion that I have avoided.

I have picked up a nice Brno 22F a year ago. Now thats a nice rifle.
 
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