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"Don't stop white people" and "Police to raid in socks"

Discussion in 'Legal' started by roo_ster, Aug 2, 2005.

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  1. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

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    Article:
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2004600000-2005350468,00.html
    Just in case you thought the Brits were taking to jihadis a bit too rough, try this (pair of socks) on for size:

    Article:
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2004600000-2005350274,00.html
    Now, that is an interesting mix of cultural in/sensitivity.

    I am contiually amazed by the way non-Americans refer to race in the most blunt fashion: Fox in Mexico, the gal from the first article, etc. America gets poked in the eye over race issues...while other countries just flat out state their prejudices for all to see.

    Also, we are berated by our lefties for not waiting on potential jihadis hand and foot, while France & the UK is going after them hammer & tong...even expelling citizens for inflammatory speech.
     
  2. MrTuffPaws

    MrTuffPaws Member

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    HA HA HA :D You have got to be kidding!!!! They have to take their socks off before a raid? HA HA HA!!!!!
     
  3. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Mr.Tuff, no they took their shoes off, not their socks. No shoes inside a mosque you know. Is this a war or what?

    Or, is this an excuse to purchase more tactical 5.11 black socks? :D
     
  4. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    Not only would I not take off my socks, I'd make it a point to wade through the biggest mudpuddle I could find beforehand. Stoopid rule.

    Greg
     
  5. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    Can you say "anti personnel devices" ? (i.e., thumb tacks on the floor in front of the door!) :uhoh:
     
  6. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    MI5 should introduce training to shoot on one shoot so you may return fire, in a politically correct manner (i.e. shoot a random white male first before shooting an Arab terrorist), while taking off your shoes. :D
     
  7. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    I wish they would get to calling it "statistical profiling" instead of racial.

    If you go by the statistics, you have a profile that's not race or religious based. You don't say what they statistics are, you don't want to set up the terrorist with the ability to know exactly who to give the bombs.

    Example, how likely are white males and females over "60ish looking" to strap on a bomb? Japanese as well, doubtful they would be carriers of bombs, etc..
     
  8. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    World war? What world war? It's just a minor police action, isn't it?
     
  9. ClonaKilty

    ClonaKilty Member

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    The more you travel abroad, the more you will see how true this is. People in most countries think nothing of daily racial, ethnic religious slurs that would get one fired in the US.
     
  10. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Taking off my boots, much less my socks, could get me thrown in Gitmo for deploying a pair of Bio-WMDS. :eek:
    Biker
     
  11. Kurush

    Kurush Member

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    Yeah, I mean how many Japanese terrorists have ever released sarin gas in a subway, sprayed botulinum, or blown anthrax spores all over Tokyo. Oh yeah, 120 of them :rolleyes:
     
  12. Rebar

    Rebar member

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    The Japanese are free to counter their terrorist threats how they please. We have a different problem, and we need to address it specifically.
     
  13. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    Gee did we drop the ceremonial rice on Japan before we intorduced them to the atomic age? This PC crap is funnier than anything on the Blue Comedy Tour :) :) :) :) :) :)

    Kevin
     
  14. Rebar

    Rebar member

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  15. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    kurush,

    They really aren't a threat to us. They're a completely seperate entity and more concerned with their country than ours. The Japanese and Japanese Americans would be one of the last ones I worry about.
     
  16. NHBB

    NHBB Member

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    it is not racial, it is not religions.

    right.

    I wonder what sort of doctrine introduced the barefoot raid... I'll take religion for $1000 alex..
     
  17. Kurush

    Kurush Member

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    You have no idea who's a threat because the generalizations of the profiling fans are based on a very small data set, and even within that tiny data set they conveniently ignore the many non-Arabs, even among known al-Qaeda terrorists.

    Oh really.

    Link
    Even if you persist in your belief that the Japanese are harmless, there is another wrench in the works. There are many many Indonesians, Thai, and Filipinos who are in fact al-Qaeda members or affiliates. What percentage of TSA burger-flippers do you think can tell the difference between Filipinos and Japanese?
     
  18. Phil Ca

    Phil Ca Member

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    Any police agency that would order their officers to remove their shoes before entering someone's home should be drummed out of the police business. I would never acquiesce to that order! Your shoes or boots are part of your gear and a weapon to boot! (to boot, get it?) :)

    This PC crap has gone to far IMNSHO!!! :fire:
     
  19. Kurush

    Kurush Member

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    Oh yeah, what was this thread about anyway. Ahem. I doubt it's even true, or at least that it isn't misleading. The Sun writes nonsense all the time, its journalistic standards are roughly comparable to The Drudge Report, maybe a bit worse.
     
  20. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    kurush, you're just going to push me on this huh?

    Grrrr, I threw in the Japanese in as a token. I think we should be watching every single nationality that fits the age groups that would be appropriate. Scratch out all men and women over 60ish, children under 8-12'ish, obvious businessmen and women, moms with kids, etc. Target the more likely, period. If ANY look questionable to you, check them.

    Sound crappy? I think it would be very easy to do a job 10 times more effective than what we're doing now. If we're going to do it, do it, quit farting around with it. What we are doing now is too PC and ignorant.
     
  21. carebear

    carebear Member

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    1995 on that Aum story....

    They just been "layin' low" since then? :rolleyes:

    Or, perhaps, just perhaps, they aren't quite the immediate threat they claim to be and could, again perhaps, be left off the profiling list for efficiencies sake and dealt with with standard LEO/infiltration techniques as they probably have been since, oh say, 1995.

    You have to weight the threat based on reality to make any investigatory effort practical. Now that we're Carnivoring and "listening for chatter" I think we can safely back burner an oddball group with a sole, non-domestic attack 10 years ago to the level of the white supremacist militias and othe space cults we feared back then.
     
  22. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

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    Ah... you might want to read up a bit more on terrorism. There were more than a few Japanese terrorist groups. Red Brigade back in the day, Aum Shinrikyo now. Aum Shinrikyo successfully manufactured large amounts of sarin, and also blotched manufacturing of large amounts of anthrax.

    You might say, well that happened in Japan. Yep. They failed an attempt to spray US bases and our embassy in Japan with a bad batch of anthrax. They messed up the spore size by accident. Rumor says they were planning on hitting the sites with sarin after the bio attack failed. Oh yea, and they have US members.

    That's the problem with profiling. If you go by assumptions, you're eventually gonna miss an unorthodox attack. It's one thing to use profiling to pay more attention to certain folks or behavior. It's another to assume guilt because a person fits a profile.



    Any group that has successfully mass-produced WMD is hardly "an oddball group" on the level with a few white supremacist militias that only drink too much beer and rant a bit more than they probably should. If they hadn't screwed up on deployment, they would have killed tens of thousands.
     
  23. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    OK.

    What do you want?

    Don't check anyone at all, let all roam free regardless?

    Check every fifth one?

    Racial Profile or not?

    Statistical profiling, as I suggested, is not assuming guilt. It's profiling the more probable. After all is said and done, it's the same thing as you quoted.
    What certain folks? Of course you mean the more likely or probable, surely? And yes, the suspiciously behaved.
     
  24. Kurush

    Kurush Member

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    I realize that, and I'm sorry if I came across as picking on you specifically. I am (and have been) trying to argue that profiling is useless and counterproductive. What I'm trying to do currently is point out to everyone that generalizations about people based on their "race" are unreliable. I'm sure I could find a current terrorist group for virtually any "race" (i.e. set of ethnic groups with vaguely similar features) you could mention as not needing to be searched.

    That's why real profiling systems, like CAPS, use many different characteristics to try to predict terrorism. But they also fail! The Carnival Booth algorithm allows profiling systems using numerous independent variables to be defeated easily by even fairly small terrorist cells. Profiling, in other words, is baloney.

    It is estimated there are currently about 1500-2000 Aum members. I have no idea if they have resumed or will resume terrorist activity, but al Qaeda has "laid low" several times.
     
  25. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

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    Want do I want, or what am I willing to accept?

    I'd like the roam free and carry whatever hardware ya want, but too many Americans want to give up liberty for the illusion of safety.


    I don't want profiling to be considered guilt. ie, I want to avoid eight bullets in the back of my head because I merely "looked suspicious" when in fact I was just going about my daily life.


    Just because someone fits a religious or ethnic profile does not mean they are automatically guilty of any crime. Paying extra attention is fine. But to ignore everyone that doesn't fit a profile is kinda stupid, don't ya think? All a terrorist would have to do is get a copy of "The Profile" from TSA or any other LE agency, and now you have a blueprint of how to bypass security.

    Profiling is basically assumptions. The trite expression about "assuming" applies to a degree. With security, if you only use assumptions, you're gonna get bypassed. Someone meantioned "Why search Japanese folks?" Because there are Japanese terrorists. "Why search clean cut white folks?" Because there are white terrorists.

    I understand statistical profiling. I'm arguing it's not the end-all-be-all when it comes to security. Matter of fact, I very much question it's efficiency.
     
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