Don't think I over reacted. idiot reached for my gun.

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Trunk Monkey, Sep 2, 2013.

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  1. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    I think this one has run its course. It there are any new developments, send a PM.
     
  2. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    Update

    So I spoke to Chucky at church tonight. The first thing I did was apologize for raising my voice. He admitted that his behavior was out of line and acknowledged that what he did was unsafe.

    I told him that I understood that he got it but in the interest of safety I want to make it clear that grabbing another person’s firearm was unsafe and I’d rather he didn’t grab mine in the future. He denied that he ever had done so but said he wouldn’t in the future and I let it go.

    I don’t know that this next was the right thing to do but he still seemed very excited by the fact that I was armed and I decided to take the mystery out of it. I asked him to close the door to the security office and told him I was going to show him my gun.

    Explaining everything I was doing as I did it I drew my pistol, showed him how I was removing the magazine and clearing the chamber, showed him the empty chamber and explained why I was showing it to him and handed him the weapon.

    He was like a kid on Christmas, He seemed very impressed that it was a Smith and Wesson (apparently he’s heard of them but never seen one) he asked a few questions about the gun like “is it heavy?” to which I replied “You’re holding it, you tell me.” and went to great lengths to point out that he wasn’t pointing it at me as he handed it back.

    If it works out I may just take the guy shooting.

    So thanks to Bullfrog and 9mmepiphany
     
  3. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm glad it is working itself out for the both of you, however, I'll also point out that in your prior posts:

    I would not have considered or defined any of the above as "Grabbing your gun"...so if those are the words you used, he was on solid ground. Touching, brushing, or reaching for, isn't the same as grabbing
     
  4. Officers'Wife

    Officers'Wife Member

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    I'm glad to hear you resolved your problem without bloodshed.
     
  5. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    There are people we know who do like to hug, and I try to keep their arms and hands away from my 3:00 IWB holster. I usually succeed, but not long ago a boy we know who is left handed ran up from my right side, and I fell his hand stop very briefly when he touched the object under my untucked shirt, but he did not otherwise react. Didn't even change his friendly expression.
     
  6. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    I don’t think anyone likes to admit when they are wrong but this time I was. To me (and I’m sure to almost everyone here) placing your hand on someone’s weapon without permission is a very serious breach of etiquette on a level with a person placing their hand on my private anatomy but bucking up didn't do any good. If I honestly believed that he was a threat (I did not) I should have employed active weapons retention techiniques if I didn't think he was a threat there was no point in making a big issue out of it.

    FWIW I actually referenced this discussion with the head of security and I don’t think he totally agrees with the collective’s assessment that I caused the issue with my reaction but he is 100% in agreement that the Biblical means of addressing the issue of wrongs done with in the church is one on one first then you get the church eldership involved (Matthew 18: 15, 17)

    I'm not a hugger but I'm not going to cause hard feelings in the church to enforce that boundary.
     
  7. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll cue you into a anti-detection hugging technique.

    When someone approaches you to hug, make sure that both your arms encircle them under both of their arms...there is no way they'll be able to feel you
     
  8. itsa pain

    itsa pain member

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    every time I punched someone I got arrested which cost a lot of money. how would an assault effect your carry permit?
     
  9. TonyDedo

    TonyDedo Member

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    I've read along this thread with interest, and it seems to me like the issue was less about the gun (as someone pointed out, it wasn't really a "gun grab") and more about an inappropriate violation of personal space. If it were me, I would have viewed it the same as if the guy had pulled up my shirt to see the band on my boxer shorts, or taken a tug at my belt buckle.

    Regardless of what it was, you clearly felt violated, you told the guy to back off and he didn't respect your wishes, and you took the high road by escalating the issue to authority figures rather than issuing a punishment yourself (which would have just complicated the issue even more). I think you played this one right.

    I hope that you included as part of your "show and tell" a brief lecture about the important of discretion when it comes to CCW, and that it doesn't turn into a "hi, how's your gun?" every time you see him.
     
  10. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    The first time, no.

    2nd time ... probably not.

    3rd time ... say hello to Mr Floor.

    Some people just have to be REALLY badly embarrassed for them to get the message. Unfortunate, but true.
     
  11. CharlieDeltaJuliet

    CharlieDeltaJuliet Member

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    I am sorry, I no longer have the physical ability to defend myself. I broke my back almost four years ago and still pay or it. My handgun is my lifeblood and besides my knife, the only way of defending myself. Being touchy freely or grabbing to use against me, like my estranged cousin, it is a big NO-NO. I think you handed it better than I did. Hug me , fine, but keep the hands off the Sig...lol.

    My cousin honestly meant to draw mine on me(he knows my condition and that I carry on my right side). Needless to say I am glad we both made it through unscathed... At least the person grabbing at yours isn't a drunk and known narcotic addict... Stay safe brother and use that elbow to hurt some fingers if he reaches again...
     
  12. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    He actually stated that he wouldn't ever even reference my gun again before I even showed it to him
     
  13. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that you accept certain exceptions when you belong to a Huggy Church...many times you have to compromise personal comfort zones in the name of the fitting into a community...or change communities
     
  14. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    Don't think that was -my- quote, but none the less, even in a "hug happy" church that does not extend to fiddling with my sidearm ... particularly after I've told you twice (first nicely, 2nd time forcefully) to NOT do that. Third time you hit the floor.

    I'm NOT going to let you do something stupid and shoot me, or anyone else, with my gun.
     
  15. Potatohead

    Potatohead Member

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    That sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
     
  16. Potatohead

    Potatohead Member

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    Weird, maybe not.
     
  17. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    You're right, sorry for the mis-quote...it was TonyDedo...and I made a correction

    I was referring to the futility of trying to keep someone out of "personal space" in a culture where hugging and physical contact is the norm
     
  18. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Emeritus

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    If you feel comfortable, go for it. Sounds like a complete newb and they are fun to teach. PM me if you need a training outline.
     
  19. riceboy72

    riceboy72 Member

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    Thanks for all this, Trunk Monkey. I learned quite a bit from this entire thread.
     
  20. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    So did I
     
  21. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I have issues with people I don't want in my personal space, too.

    One technique to avoid getting totally entangled is the "side hug", exposing only one side of your body.

    John
     
  22. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I think you're correct and that the head of security needs to have a very serious talk about this with all the curch staff and not just this fellow. Hugging doesn't extend to intentional contact with firearms.
     
  23. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    I didn't ask for details but when I told the head of security how my meeting with Chucky went he hinted that he'd had to have the same discussion with various other staff members when he came on board. He's take on it is " They grew up in the "church bubble" and they don't thinkl of it as unsafe they think it's funny."
     
  24. itsa pain

    itsa pain member

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    you are right a mountain was made out of an ant hill over this. people talking about lawyers assaults reporting him very sad and this style is used against gun owners by the antis. come on just stay away from the guy quit the security team. anyway you see he wants to shoot now. will you beat him up if he scratches your gun? some guys want to flatten a guy like that which I think is just talk and would not happen
     
  25. TacticsWithPractice

    TacticsWithPractice Member

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    Take the fellow shooting,eh?

    I like the idea of taking the him to the range for some much needed instruction.

    I can only imagine the tense situation of someone making any effort to expose or shed light on a concealed weapon in a setting such as a church. Would leave a bad taste to say the least, regardless of the subjects intentions.

    It does sound though, that he may be more curious than anything, definatley not understanding of the principals that are ingrained into the mind of a CCW holder.

    Lending a some insight and training to him could nurture a calling for all anybody could wonder, and at least keep him from making the same mistake in a setting not so forgiving........
     
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