Dot failed mid-qualifying. :(

This.

What seems to be the case nowadays is so many want their handgun to be for hunting, target shooting, defensive carry and all around do-it-all. In Cirillo's day there were target guns and combat handguns and hunting pieces. Good eyesight or not most shooters really have the ability to get the job done within real life defensive situations and not be dependent on today's electronics. When Cirillo died in an accident, he was carrying his old Colt lightweight snubby.

If you dont want to be reliant on today's tech, then ditch your computer, tablet, phone, smart TV's, and all the smart gizmos, GPS, new cars (talk about frustrating electronics! :fire:), etc, etc. Things would be so much easier! NOT! :)

Lets face it, none of that's going anywhere, and I know I don't want most of it to. Star Trek changed the world (it did, really!), and I want to take full advantage! And the advantages do outweigh the negatives, for the most part, except for maybe the car stuff anyway. 😒

Lets skip on to the Star Wars rocket cycles and I'll take a couple of Phazer's too. A couple of hot girlies in those tight, skimpy Federation uniforms wouldn't be a bad thing either. :p
 
Florida is nice without such complicated CCW qualifying rules. Come join us in the sun. Visit Disney and Universal (can't bring a firearm).
 
If you dont want to be reliant on today's tech, then ditch your computer, tablet, phone, smart TV's, and all the smart gizmos, GPS, new cars (talk about frustrating electronics! :fire:), etc, etc. Things would be so much easier! NOT! :)

Lets face it, none of that's going anywhere, and I know I don't want most of it to. Star Trek changed the world (it did, really!), and I want to take full advantage! And the advantages do outweigh the negatives, for the most part, except for maybe the car stuff anyway. 😒

Lets skip on to the Star Wars rocket cycles and I'll take a couple of Phazer's too. A couple of hot girlies in those tight, skimpy Federation uniforms wouldn't be a bad thing either. :p
Regarding technology…Resistance is futile 😆

I am looking forward to my first pistol RDS. I would also like one of those rocket cycles, if you know anyone distributing those. 😉
 
Baby steps! First the pistol red dot, then maybe one of those people-sized drones you can fly, and then...... :)
 
Regarding technology…Resistance is futile 😆

I am looking forward to my first pistol RDS. I would also like one of those rocket cycles, if you know anyone distributing those. 😉
I don't reject technology as a rule. I program and run a 5 axis CNC mill. My HD pistol has a mounted flashlight and laser. But nearly all of my practice in regular and low light conditions is with the irons. Like many youngsters that can't tell time on a cl9ck with a face and 2 hands. Or the ones that can't count out coreect change if the register doesn't tell them how much to give you back. Technology is great as long as you aren't totally dependent on it.
 
Florida is nice without such complicated CCW qualifying rules. Come join us in the sun. Visit Disney and Universal (can't bring a firearm).
HR 218 is a Federal law that covers 50-state ccw legality for retired LEO’s. If I qualify annually, and don’t do something stupid to jeopardize my state-allowed ccw status, I am allowed to legally ccw nationwide.

If I don’t qual, fail to qual or do something to lose my state ccw status, then I can’t.

Just a regulatory hoop to jump through that is not all that tough for me to do. :D

Stay safe.
 
So, having that benchmark, I knocked 2 months off of that and now change the battery in it at 4 months.
I check all my optic batteries once a year, in January. None of my carry guns have an optic; they're all range toys, and a struggle for me anyway.
Between the impossible-for-anyone-to-open packaging, and the jalapeño sauce or whatever they coat them in to keep toddlers from eating them, I am really starting to dislike dealing with these wafer batteries. :fire:
They are unpredictable. Got a new bathroom scale (!) that uses one, as well as the door sensors for our security system. All have failed at unpredictable times.
Yes on the packaging, and it's not restricted to batteries. Many medications share the problem, including some for my dog.
The idea of wiping batteries down with denatured alcohol sounds a good one.
Moon
 
I check all my optic batteries once a year, in January. None of my carry guns have an optic; they're all range toys, and a struggle for me anyway.
You need to take into account what the sights are and how their batteries interact with use.

Things like the Aimpoint M*/ML*'s, or newer, just get left on and changed out short of their battery life, which can be anywhere from 1 year, 5 years, and with some of the newer sights, a lot more. I have a couple of M2's that are over 20 years old now, that, other than a couple of minutes each year at the battery change, have been on nonstop, all that time. Ive yet to find one dead either.

With things like my Vortex scopes, that don't get turned on a whole lot, every couple of years seems to work fine m. I date all my batteries when new, and if there's room, I tag them or the covers with the date they were last changed.

Anything with shake awake, all depends on what you're doing with the gun. If it sits where there is no vibration, the battery will likely last close to as long as its rated. If it mostly sits in the safe, and you use it somewhat regularly, changing it once a year is probably about right. If you're carrying it, subjecting it to constant vibrations, etc, then you'll have to try and figure out an average real-world life, and a compromise or buffer on that.


Ive been using red dots on long guns since before they had batteries in them. They worked great for what they were/are, but come with some limitations. Once they started using batteries in them, battery life was always the sore point, and back then, battery life was usually pretty dismal, and finding them dead was more likely than not.

Aimpoint changed all that, and that's when things really started moving forward. Ive had a red dot on any long gun I consider for serious use ever since.

When they started getting them down to a realistic daily carry size on the handguns, I was very interested, but what slowed the roll down there was mainly cost, and that kept me back for a long time. I knew I was going to like them, but having to buy multiples of them to cover a minimum number of guns quickly becomes cost-prohibitive.

Now that you can get them for reasonable prices, and mounting options just keep getting better, the food gates are open. :)

And, as with anything, things are usually a struggle at first, but spend a little quality time learning and figuring them out, and things do get easier and better. With the handguns, learning to make some minor adjustments to your presentations was the biggest thing for me. The light literally came on every time after I got that worked out.

Once that happens and you're now focused on what you're trying to shoot, instead of looking for the dot, the advantages become much more obvious.
 
Once that happens and you're now focused on what you're trying to shoot, instead of looking for the dot, the advantages become much more obvious.
Points taken, couple things:
-I manually turn off dots when they go in the safe, so the 'once a year' thing work. Actually, have a great battery tester, and 'good' batteries go back in the sight.
-My daily carry is a pocket gun (BG2.0, currently), and adding an optic to such a tiny pistol seems silly.
-There have been arguments that engagement times/effectiveness at close, self defense distance, optics make little difference.
-Then, I'm an awful Luddite. ;)
Thanks,
Moon
 
My one pistol optic has a solar cell backup on top. Holosun 507C in green. Has had the same battery since I bought it 5 years ago and I just replaced it, not because it was off, but its been 5 years. It has shake awake so it shuts itself off in the safe if I don't touch it for a time. Even with the insane battery life, I have backup iron sights on one of my optic firearms. But not the other. And that bothers me.
 
I am all for advancing technology even though I am not very good at putting a lot of it to use. A lot of it doesn't fill any need I have so I won't clutter up what few brains cells I have left.. Red dot sights are great but I am leery of them on a SD gun unless it's a shake awake design and has proved to be reliable. I am also leery of stated battery life on any device as I have never had any last as long as advertised. Iron sights are always there and ready to use.
 
I am the old school kind of guy at work. I like fixed sights. They had to put a red dot on my rifle and there was no way around it. Well after a few months of it being on there , the batteries leaked and corroded and ate up body of the red dot assembly so bad that it was trash. Always have some good old standard fixed sights.
 
Iron sights might always be there, "ready to use" (and that isn't always the truth either. ;)), but that doesn't mean they are necessarily "able to be used". Lots of times the sights are there, but you cant even make out the sights, to get a sight picture due to lighting conditions, target background, etc.

If they were the perfect sighting system, there would be no need for things like night sights, all the different attempts trying to make them better, lasers, and the red dots catching on, etc. I think there's a hint in there somewhere. :)
 
I swapped batteries in all four dot equipped pistols I have: three Glocks and a 5.5” Ruger Mk IV upper.

The Ruger and G-19 build needed to have minor adjustments to get back on target.

The G-17 build and 43X MOS were right on the money after I reinstalled the sights.

I must say the G-19 build just doesn’t shoot as well as the 17 or 43X for me. It’s not awful, but it’s not an all star by far.

Stay safe.
 
Who in the world is reluctant to put a red dot on their carry gun? You can have the luxury of an always dirty lens, either from dirt getting on the rear side because the sight is facing up and everything lands on it or the crud that blows out of the compensator that you also have to have makes the front side of your sight look like a truck windshield in a fly hatch. And you can make an educated guess of how much life is left in the battery and have it go out right before you have to make a life or death shot. And if you're trying to get it to work when one raindrop lands on the LED, hold up one hand for a time out and count on the bad guy to give you a little break so you can get back in the fight with a sight that works. As an added bonus, you can test out different types of thread locking compounds on the screws and throw the ones out that come loose. I also like the need to adjust the brightness as conditions change because I like to handle my pistol a dozen times a day.
Personally I don't have any use for an optic on any of my pistols except the hunting guns. I'm all for technology that works. Especially for fighting pistols, this technology just doesn't work for me.
 
Just an FYI, for those who dont have the experience with them.

Sure, you would prefer the glass were clean and clear, but the dot still works fine if it isn't. In fact, you can cover the front of the sight completely with a piece of tape, and if you're using it properly, ie, shooting with both eyes open, just like you do with the irons, the dot will be there and you can still shoot as you normally would. You don't have to see through the window for this to work. Works just like your long guns with the front cover closed.

Just like the irons, crap does get into/onto things and the dots are no different. And just like the irons, if you keep up on things and maintain your stuff, it doesn't have to build up and maybe become an issue.

As Ive already said, battery life isn't an issue if you're paying attention. And even if you arent, you still have your backup irons, should you need them. As with most things, paying attention is better.

I just gave the water drop thing a go. There was a little bit of distortion with the water on there, but it was gone with a quick shake, and about as debilitating as a drop of water in the rear notch of your irons, which is also gone with a quick shake.

Ive also been shooting in a light rain with mine in normal practice, and never encountered this happening either. There were water drops on the front of the screen, but the hood seems to cover things well enough when it comes to the projector. When I just tried it, I had to hold the gun upright and reach in and place the drop on it when I did. Could it happen? Sure. But it doesn't seem to be something you need to dwell on.

Ive heard all sorts of stories about screws coming loose, shearng off, sights coming off, etc. I have eight guns with dot sights now, and installed every one myself, using a torque driver to set the screws to spec. So far, Ive had good results. The only problem Ive had, has been one screw coming loose, which I retorqued and hasn't been an issue since. If you can follow directions, pay attention to your stuff, and maintain it, I don't see this being an issue.

As far as brightness goes, you have a couple of choices. A number of sights self-adjust to differing light. Some do it pretty well, some not as much, and things continue to improve as well. Holosun's new SCS models do it a lot better than their earlier sights. Ive been told the Trijicons do it well too.

Ive been using one of their Holosun's 407c's for over a year now, and while it does have a self adjusting feature, it doesn't work as well as the SCS. I found I liked it better just locking the auto adjust out and setting the dot to a brightness I can see well outdoors, and go with that. At bedtime, I hit the gun with an air can to knock off the dust bunnies, and drop the dots brightness down two clicks. In the morning, I bump it back up. Other than that, there's no need to touch it again.

Anytime you switch over to or try out new things, there's always going to be a learning curve. How things go for you usually depends on whether or not you're open to learning it or are fighting it. The more you fight it, the harder it usually is. I would say here, if you know or can find someone who has been using a dot sight on their gun and has things figured out, it would be well worth talking to them and getting some pointers.

Changing up your presentations a little, and knowing where your eye will pick up the dot quicker, makes a big difference in how things go. And if you're a point shooter, who is accustomed to, and comfortable with shooting over top of the gun, I think this will be a lot easier for you, as you're already most of the way there.

I also think you're going to find that your iron sight shooting will improve and sharpen, too, as all of a sudden, your irons will be aligned on presentation, without thought or effort on your part.
 
Just an FYI, for those who dont have the experience with them.

Sure, you would prefer the glass were clean and clear, but the dot still works fine if it isn't. In fact, you can cover the front of the sight completely with a piece of tape, and if you're using it properly, ie, shooting with both eyes open, just like you do with the irons, the dot will be there and you can still shoot as you normally would. You don't have to see through the window for this to work. Works just like your long guns with the front cover closed.

Just like the irons, crap does get into/onto things and the dots are no different. And just like the irons, if you keep up on things and maintain your stuff, it doesn't have to build up and maybe become an issue.

As Ive already said, battery life isn't an issue if you're paying attention. And even if you arent, you still have your backup irons, should you need them. As with most things, paying attention is better.

I just gave the water drop thing a go. There was a little bit of distortion with the water on there, but it was gone with a quick shake, and about as debilitating as a drop of water in the rear notch of your irons, which is also gone with a quick shake.

Ive also been shooting in a light rain with mine in normal practice, and never encountered this happening either. There were water drops on the front of the screen, but the hood seems to cover things well enough when it comes to the projector. When I just tried it, I had to hold the gun upright and reach in and place the drop on it when I did. Could it happen? Sure. But it doesn't seem to be something you need to dwell on.

Ive heard all sorts of stories about screws coming loose, shearng off, sights coming off, etc. I have eight guns with dot sights now, and installed every one myself, using a torque driver to set the screws to spec. So far, Ive had good results. The only problem Ive had, has been one screw coming loose, which I retorqued and hasn't been an issue since. If you can follow directions, pay attention to your stuff, and maintain it, I don't see this being an issue.

As far as brightness goes, you have a couple of choices. A number of sights self-adjust to differing light. Some do it pretty well, some not as much, and things continue to improve as well. Holosun's new SCS models do it a lot better than their earlier sights. Ive been told the Trijicons do it well too.

Ive been using one of their Holosun's 407c's for over a year now, and while it does have a self adjusting feature, it doesn't work as well as the SCS. I found I liked it better just locking the auto adjust out and setting the dot to a brightness I can see well outdoors, and go with that. At bedtime, I hit the gun with an air can to knock off the dust bunnies, and drop the dots brightness down two clicks. In the morning, I bump it back up. Other than that, there's no need to touch it again.

Anytime you switch over to or try out new things, there's always going to be a learning curve. How things go for you usually depends on whether or not you're open to learning it or are fighting it. The more you fight it, the harder it usually is. I would say here, if you know or can find someone who has been using a dot sight on their gun and has things figured out, it would be well worth talking to them and getting some pointers.

Changing up your presentations a little, and knowing where your eye will pick up the dot quicker, makes a big difference in how things go. And if you're a point shooter, who is accustomed to, and comfortable with shooting over top of the gun, I think this will be a lot easier for you, as you're already most of the way there.

I also think you're going to find that your iron sight shooting will improve and sharpen, too, as all of a sudden, your irons will be aligned on presentation, without thought or effort on your part.
Took me decades to start using dot sights, about 15 years ago I started on rifles, 4 back on handguns. I now see their value, and recommend them to people when they ask what I think about them.

You are 100% correct saying they require a learning curve to understand how to use them. And once folks realize it isn’t rocket science or voodoo, they usually do very well.

Guys over the decades scoffed at newfangled scopes, at synthetic stocks, at hollow point bullets and just about everything else that was new or foreign to them. It’s like aversion and vocal skepticism becomes a part of some shooters DNA sometimes.

If folks use new shooting technology or not, no one is making them do it if they don’t want to. (And I’m all good with that.) As for the comments, to me they’re like my tinnitus…merely noise in the background I’ve learned to ignore. :)

Stay safe.
 
Just the rantings of an old fart, but that is why I wont use them on a handgun. Of course I get laughed at by the youngsters at work because I still use dial calipers and and old school micrometers. No batteries to go bad.
Sometimes the old school is the best school. I like new tech, but never fully trust it.
 
I used to use a 43x with a holosun res dot for off duty carry. I after a while the dot was frequently dying out because motion activation kept it constantly on probably because I prefer pocket carry. I also noticed the glass became hazed over. Unfortunately that gun was stolen during an extended hospital stay and I now pocket carry a sig p320 In a subcompact grip with night sights.
Since I still have 4 mags for the 43x I plan on replacing it with a glock 48 with night sights ( I'm told I still qualify for blue label even though I had to take medical retirement) I don't plan on going back to red dot for exactly what you experienced.
 
I used to use a 43x with a holosun res dot for off duty carry. I after a while the dot was frequently dying out because motion activation kept it constantly on probably because I prefer pocket carry. I also noticed the glass became hazed over. Unfortunately that gun was stolen during an extended hospital stay and I now pocket carry a sig p320 In a subcompact grip with night sights.
Since I still have 4 mags for the 43x I plan on replacing it with a glock 48 with night sights ( I'm told I still qualify for blue label even though I had to take medical retirement) I don't plan on going back to red dot for exactly what you experienced.
Sorry to hear you had to medical out, that is never fun stuff to go through. I hope you have recovered enough to enjoy life after work to its fullest. 🙏

You should like the 48 if you pick one up. I prefer it to the 43X to shoot, but the 43X is a bit easier for me to conceal. (Not a fan of my 43 at all.)

I bridged the change from revolvers in many duty holsters to dot-sighted double-stack 2011’s in many duty holsters over my nearly 32 year career; few agencies with 5.56 rifles in patrol armories to everyone having one in the vehicle gun rack. More and more folks are using the dot sights, academies are teaching kids from day one on them, etc.

Like I said above, it took me three decades to even try one out and a solid year to get pretty capable with them on several guns. Now that the peepers aren’t what they once were, and the SWAT/SRT team leader I was doesn’t have that 35 year old juice anymore, using dot sights now and in the future is making more sense for me.

But as always; what may work here may not work there, YMMV. :)

Stay safe.
 
I have two cheap Vector red dots, a vortex venom, a vortex viper, a Leupold Delta point pro, and a Ruger ready dot.

The glass fell out of one of the Vector's after 50 rounds but they replaced it. The batteries last a long time in them but the screws are junk and always working loose.

The batteries in my vortex are always dead. At least the venom has a top mount battery, but even when I manually shut them off, the battery is dead every time I take them out.

The Leupold works great, no complaints.

The Ruger ready dot works surprisingly well and is reasonably well zeroed. No battery to fail but feels pretty fragile.

Honestly I am still trying to like them. They just don't really do anything for me. I have more confidence with 3 dot tritium iron sights. They don't fall off, the battery doesn't die, and they don't collect dust and rain and smootze.
 
Never say never. :)

Just an FYI on the three dot night sights. They can, and do, come off on occasion. Had a brand new front sight come off on one of my Glocks. Swore I had plenty of Loctite on it, too. 🙄 Regardless, it pays to constantly check them, especially the taller suppressor type.

Secret Squirrel tip.... if you have NOD's, or a cheap Russian NV monocular, you can go back after dark and quickly find it. The newer the sight, the more it screams out..."here I am dummy!" :)
 
Never say never. :)

Just an FYI on the three dot night sights. They can, and do, come off on occasion. Had a brand new front sight come off on one of my Glocks. Swore I had plenty of Loctite on it, too. 🙄 Regardless, it pays to constantly check them, especially the taller suppressor type.

Secret Squirrel tip.... if you have NOD's, or a cheap Russian NV monocular, you can go back after dark and quickly find it. The newer the sight, the more it screams out..."here I am dummy!" :)

I'm not opposed to them, the pros are just not outweighing the cons for me yet. The durability and battery issues seam to be largely solved on the newer high end ones. The mounting is the next thing that I think needs to improve, and that has also been addressed with the Aim point COA and the A Cut mounting. I would like to try a Glock 47 with that setup on it but the priority is not high enough to spend $1000 on a gun that is too big for my carry regimen. I'm hoping that becomes an industry standard mounting pattern along with a miniaturized version for 1" slides.
 
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