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Double Action Revolver point of aim

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by orpington, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. orpington

    orpington Member

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    Are many Double Action revolvers designed to hold to a point of aim left of centre realizing that most folks are right handed and a heavier trigger pull will cause a shift to the right?

    I fired a 1908 shipped Triple Lock earlier today and my group was left of centre firing single action and dead on firing double action. Amazingly the group was tighter firing double action vs single action. That's unusual for me. Again my perceptions are unscientific and I may or may not reproduce the same results in future.
     
  2. IlikeSA

    IlikeSA Member

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    It may have to do with the differences in finger placement on the trigger as well as reach. You want a handgun to align with the bones in your arm. If you are stretching to reach the trigger, or if the trigger is to short, the alignment will not be correct. Your wrist should not be cocked to one side or the other.
     
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  3. Eddietruett

    Eddietruett Member

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    I've never heard this. I would think that the manufacturers would want their guns to shoot as close to poa as possible. Not everyone is going to "pull" a gun left of right when they shoot. I have seen the point of impact change at longer ranges depending on how I have my finger positioned on the trigger of a revolver unless it has a real light trigger. The heavier the trigger pull than the more "pull" some people will see. With a stiffer trigger some people might pull left and others right. Most shooters or so I've been told do not pull a trigger "straight back". Some actually push the gun away and some pull it towards them. Usually such a small amount that it does not show up in handgun shooting unless long range is involved. Also some people "jerk". So with all the variables, I cant think how any gun maker could predict how people are gonna shoot enough to deliberately change the point of impact. Could be way wrong here.
     
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  4. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    I will assume the ideal is straight down the middle, as a mass-producing gun maker like S&W has no idea who may be using their firearm once it's assembled, boxed and shipped.

    Now a custom job? That's a different story. Those certainly should be made-to-order for the customer's preferences.

    Sometimes a barrel or even a blade front sight can be canted a bit throwing the sight picture left or right, either by accident or by an adjustment from a previous owner to fit their shooting style.

    Your own eyes may have a touch of astigmatism as well that throws off the sights a bit. I know my sight picture is usually good height-wise but bullet impact is always just a touch to the left, so I have to adjust the sights on my personal guns to bring shots back to the center in order to make up for my less than perfect vision.

    Stay safe!
     
  5. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    The short answer is no. If your groups were left of center either the gun is misaligned or something with your technique was causing it.
     
  6. d2wing

    d2wing Member

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    No, not in any I have owned.
     
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  7. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Nope, none are designed with the intention of the sights (POA) being anything but centered for the point of impact (POI)

    If your gun is placing it's shots consistently left of center, it is either your trigger management or your grip or a combination of both

    Not that unusual at all.

    When I have a client who is consistently jerking the trigger of their pistol, I'll often have them fire a pistol in DA. Unless they are just jerking the trigger through the DA also, they'll normally shoot a smaller group in DA.

    The problem with shooting a pistol in SA is that you know that the trigger pull will be very light and you're tempted to anticipate the sights being aligned and slap the trigger. When shooting DA, you're more focused on smoothly pressing the trigger to the rear and the result is usually a surprise break.

    Without having seen you shoot, I'd suspect that you're over gripping the gun and tightening your grip as you press the trigger. The frame might also be too large for you or the grips too small
     
  8. jar

    jar Member

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    A really really important and all too often ignored fact. Grips really do make a difference and so far there is no Mark 1 version 2.0 hand.
     
  9. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I predominantly shoot pistols left handed, and have owned/serviced/resighted/zeroed hundreds of handguns - none have been selectively sighted by factory to favor a right handed shooter. Either your sights are misaligned or your technique is failing your pistol.
     
  10. orpington

    orpington Member

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    All the above responses were what I suspected. I had not had this problem with any of the other Triple Locks I own. I should also mention that this is the only one I own with a post production modified front sight. Filed and I believed symmetrically, but possibly not.
     
  11. orpington

    orpington Member

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    9mmepiphany,

    I believe yesterday my DA technique might have been better than my SA technique, so that may be true.
     
  12. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    It makes it tough to answer questions about factory sights when you withhold information that it was modified post-production
     
  13. orpington

    orpington Member

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    The post production modification was filing only and appears symmetrical, but possibly not. I will take a photograph at some point and attach it.
     
  14. Snake Plisskin

    Snake Plisskin Member

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    An adjustable rear sight on a revolver that is to be moved correctly. Always move the sight ( sight blade ) in the direction you want the POI to move.
     
  15. George P

    George P Member

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  16. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Really...again...it just won't die a graceful death.

    That correction chart was developed for bullseye shooting where only one hand is holding the gun...in this case, the chart is labeled for use with the Right Hand. Adding the other hand invalidates much of the chart due to the different vectors of pressure applied to the handgun
     
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  17. orpington

    orpington Member

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    Photographs of the front sight and revolver. After market modifications appear symmetrical. 20190108_150139.jpg 20190108_150203.jpg 20190108_150114.jpg 20190108_150316.jpg 20190108_150320.jpg
     
  18. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Looking at the top picture, judging by where the blade meets the base, I'd say it isn't
     
  19. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    How much difference in point of impact was there? An inch? 6 inches? What was the difference in the two group diameters? Does the phenomenon repeat every time you shoot? With all kinds of ammo?

    I know you were trained in scientific thinking; sounds like you have the makings of a good fun investigation! :)
     
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  20. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    ...and at what distance?
     
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  21. MrBorland

    MrBorland Moderator

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    I’m wondering why that would matter. Why would symmetry of the blade affect POI changes between SA & DA? Still seems a software rather than a hardware issue.
     
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  22. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

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    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  23. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I agree that it is likely a software issue.

    I thought all of his shots were to the left, just that his DA grouping was tighter
     
  24. orpington

    orpington Member

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    I will have to fire this one again and see what happens.

    My group firing DA was about 2" to the right of the SA attempt. I fired SA at 30 feet and 100 feet and DA at 30 feet.

    I will try and pursue a more scientific approach and post my results.

    Any photographs that display asymmetry are an optical illusion.
     
  25. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Being more than 2" out at 10 yards is quite a bit...assuming that you were taking your time and trying to shoot for a group

    Than it's back to operator error
     
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