Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by marine 97-03, Oct 7, 2011.
Cromolly or crome lined????? 659$ at buds.... any thoughts?
Is this a good price....
ive heard (around here mostly) they are just about the lowest quality ar15 available.
so i would say probably not.
i hear good things about palmetto state armory lately, and the same about spikes and bcm for several years now.
I have only experience with one that was ordered by an individual that came into the FFL one day while I was there. He did not know anything about the AR and the FFL was busy so he pushed the guy, wife and two kids off on me. I did a basic tear down and lube for him explaining why and what I was doing.
I was impressed with the fit but not crazy about the rough texture of the finish if I remember correctly.
He and family went to the range and shot a total of 500 rounds before running out of ammo. They all came back in for some water smiling from ear to ear and seemed very happy with their purchase.
Centerfire systems also has ARs in that price range....Actually as FlyinBryan said you can hear all kinds of stuff only for me I always heard it was Olympia that was the bottom feeder??.
ya, ive only heard it. zero experience with them to date.
i should add that ive also heard very unflattering opinions about the two carbines i own but they are absolutely 100% reliable and quite accurate (b-m's) so i really like them and will be keeping them.
I have one I paid $425 for. It's a flattop and was cheap enough for me to put on
My lower. Works fine so far with 500 rounds through it.
I'd look at Rainier Arms first. You might not find it that cheap, but they don't sell junk either. I've got an M4 I built myself, very nice, top notch, and I've got another one that I built using Oly parts. Rainier will sell you a whole rifle, build one for you out of their parts and/or parts you supply, or sell you the parts to build your own. Their prices are about what BCM's are, in fact, some prices are identical.
Now the rifle with Oly parts isn't bad, I mean it works well and all that, but the craftsmanship just isn't there. At all. No attention to detail. Wrong front sight tower, out of spec parts, parkerized trigger groups (even the engagement surfaces!) mill marks on the bolt carrier. Makes me think about those AK imports that are half put together, unpainted receivers and what not.
And Olympic Arms isn't the worst one out there, not by a longshot. They aren't known for making quality AR's, I wish the were though because they are only a few exits down I5, but at least the stuff works --provided you don't use any of their tactical gear. Now that stuff is pure junk, I tested it out in the army, their FF rail for our SDM's and their match barrel, and gave them some advice. They looked at me like I had an appendage growing from my forehead and said their designs were the best in the industry. Last time I went in there, never been back. They also lost a huge sale to an infantry BRIGADE just down the street. How stupid, but at least they stand behind their stupidity, and that is more than I can say for some makers.
Not all AR's are the same. I'd save the money and put it towards an LMT. They make about the best AR or M4 for the money, they really do. I have an LMT upper I got for the M4, and it is great. Noveske is even better, but they cost a little more. The M4 they make using SAW blanks looks like a tough rifle, and I would gladly have traded my Colt M4 for either the Noveske or the LMT.
Keep in mind this Oly rifle normally sells for $900 in the configuration it is in, I built it for less years ago though, so I can only imagine what I could get with a little over 2/3rds of that.
I hear Stag is a good place for budget AR's, I know Rainier sells them as their budget line, but I've never used them. Anymore, I build 'em myself. I get what I want, usually for less, altough I haven't figured out how to build this one Noveske M4 for the price they are selling it for at Rainier... Just over $1000 with Afghan bbl, AAC suppressor mount/hider, and the VLTOR gear they use (which I'm not a fan of, hence I build them myself) NIB. Perhaps it is a build they didn't sell or something I don't know, but I saw it on the wall and wished I had perhaps got this and a trigger instead of building the one I built, but I'm not complaining, the AR's I have, all four, are stellar, and the Oly, well, it works but I'm not proud of it.
Doublestar is good stuff as far as I am concerned. I have 2 of their rifle kits (all doublestar except the lower receiver which mine are Aero Precision, on of them is well over 5000 rounds with absolutely no issue. The LPK from doublestar has one of the best factory AR triggers I have ever used. I'd say go for it, even though if it was me personally I'd call them direct and have them build a rifle kit to my exact specifications then come up with a lower.
I've only fondled DS's ARs at fun shows but I've shot my pal's DS 1911 and it's a fine handgun.
I recall when OlyArms was considered the bottom-feeder among AR manufacturers, but wasn't that from when they were using cast receivers? I've shot a number of OA carbines from the last few years and had no complaints to file.
I bought one for my dad. It's worked fine. I'd get a standard barrel before I got an hbar though, they're heavy (duh right)
Double Star has been around for a little while and is considered to be a decent budget brand. As with most of the budget brands, it should work for you and if it doesn't, getting it running shouldn't be hard if you know ARs.
In any case, I'd go chrome lined. Chrome is hard and slick.
So it might be over priced......
you could build your own off a delton kit or buy a lower and an upper off kerri's guns http://www.karrisguns.com/del-ton-complete-midlength-upper-with-chromed-lined-barrel-
http://www.karrisguns.com/ar-15-low...ete-and-assembled-lower-with-6-position-stock for $520 plus shipping and ffl. DOn't know a lot about kerri's, but that is the cheapest I have seen any new AR.
Is it over priced? I wouldn't say that. $659 is pretty cheap for an AR. I know a few guys that have Stags and DS's. They like them well enough. The got them to play with and they are more than fine for that.
Just shop around though. I know that the Deltons and the stuff from Palmetto State Armory is pretty popular for a low price option.
I own a DoubleStar, built the lower and bought the upper. It has met my needs for five years or so, at least 5000 rounds. They are popular in Kentucky and Tennessee.
I shot my friend's Double Star when I was looking to buy my first AR. I liked it ok, but decided after shooting that same friend's Spikes AR, I would save for that. I bought the Spike's and have been happy.
I did have some feeding issues with the Spikes early on, but realized I had a faulty mag. My Spikes has been 100% for 600+ rounds since.
Will the Double Star do what you want it to? Yes
You will pay a little extra for the nicer fit and finish - to some it's not worth it, to me it is.
I have never heard anything bad about Double Star AR's from people who actually have one.
I have had my doublestar ar for almost a year now and have ran roughly a 1000 rounds through it. It has worked perfectly. My only complaint so for is that the upper and lower are very tight and its difficult to remove the rear pin.
OK, I want to try to say this without stepping on anyone's toes or offending anyone and that is my intention. This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
This is the sort of stuff that you can expect with budget brands. As the quote states, this poster is happy with what he has, since he is a conservative shooter. 1000 rounds in about a year isn't much shooting and he doesn't view the fit as a problem and says that the rifle runs perfectly. For this poster the rifle is fine and meets his needs.
On the other hand, if I take a rifle that has a really tight fit between the receivers, this might give me a problem. When I take my AR out shooting, I play a bit, run some drills and often set up some stages to shoot. When I'm in the mood to really shoot, I can do 2000 rounds in a weekend and during this time, the rifle will get stressed. Things get really hot, metal expands and with a super tight receiver fit this may mean a shift in the point of impact to some degree or undue wear because things aren't lining up quite right. The tight fit could also mean nothing and affect nothing. The fact still remains that the upper to lower fit isn't supposed to be that tight. ARs are designed so that the user can do just about all the maintenance he may need to in the field with nothing more than the tip of a bullet. If you need tools, other than a bullet, for anything involving regular maintenance, the rifle is out of spec.
Took both of mine out again yesterday. Put 500 rounds of .223 and 225 rounds of 6.8 down the range with the usual amount of problems I have from these two uppers. 0. Personally I kind of like the fact the fit between the upper and lower is tight, and even after they were heated up they were still having no trouble cleaning 4" clays and Keystone beers off the berm (about 125 yards). If there was any complaint I could think about about DS it would be that they still haven't switched to a faster twist for the barrels for the 6.8. I believe Owen sparks said it right about the only people that complain about Double Star don't own one. I know my DoubleStars give me a lot less problems than any of the M16s and M4s I was issued in the service.
Excellent Post Tony.
Separate names with a comma.