Down with Rimfire! AKA centerfire 22 pistol issues

Status
Not open for further replies.
Man Okie... I was with you. I was even defending him, thinking everyone was being to hard on him...

But after the last post, I don't know what to say...

So I'm not gonna say anything...:scrutiny:
 
I for one would sure like to know what CF .22 caliber ammo he ran thru a Marlin 60?

I wonder if I can ream my 10/22 out to .22-250? :D

Let's move this poor fellow up to the front of the class. He's got a lot to learn yet.
 
sevenpoint62, there are a lot of good people on the board.

All of us will normally bend over backward to help. We are not firearm "experts"--we still all believe that we have a lot to learn.

I have also found that we are willing to help--and help in ways most people only can dream of. Do a search or ask about "Steelharp", and rad the posts.

However, this is right up to the point where someone starts slinging BS on the board, and trolling.

If you do NOT know about guns, this is the place to learn.

If you are underage, but have a healthy interest in firearms, this is a great place to be.

If you want to troll, or are a wannabe, you REALLY don't want to be here.

So, what's it gonna be? Do you want to learn, or do you want to be schooled?

Your choice.
 
Rimfire is EXTREMELY common. There are over 2 billion rounds of .22LR sold EVERY YEAR in the U.S. alone.

Then there is .22 Short, .22WMR, .17HMR which are also rimfire rounds--don't have annual sales figures on those.

I think it's safe to say that there is more rimfire ammo sold in the U.S than there is centerfire rifle and pistol ammo.
 
Theres a reason people moved away from rimfire long ago anyway, not sure why its still in use.
Click to expand...
You may not be sure why the rimfire is still in use today, but so many people reconize why that it is the best selling cartridge of all time. More .22lr cartridges are sold every year than all other calibers put together.
The real sad part about all of this is that even though you don't understand, you in fact are using the cartridge also.
 
It is a rimfire? ,....
I've been shooting centerfire out of it for awhile just fine

How can that be?

Ammo is Winchester 500 bricks and CCI Mini mags
Click to expand...

Not arguing with or against you, I've just have never seen this type of ammo before, i.e., CF Win in bricks and CCI Mini Mags. Could you please post a picture of them? My knowledge on guns is pretty average and I'm really interesting in seeing these.
 
Well, THAT was entertaining.

If you click on the profile button on a post, one of the options allows you to look at all the person's posts starting with the most recent...
 
I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt until that last post. You need to start with firearms 101. First learn what rimfires are before you buy your first gun, then you may understand why the rimfire is still around.
Click to expand...

According to what I was told in ROTC (which I'm not saying is the best info, but they did handle 22s daily) ammo was moved from rimfire to centerfire to due common misfires when rimfire ammo was dropped, smashed inside a clip, or otherwise jammed in such a way the rim might be impacted. Hiram Berdan supposedly invented the centerfire after seeing a man get his arm blown off while opening a wooden crate of ammo. While I never looked this up it only makes sense. Only reason I could see for keeping 22 rimfire is its cheaper to make and centerfire primers would be tiny, and therefore easy to miss. Also last I heard centerfire is more powerful. <shrugs>

I realize alot of rimfire is sold and, to my surprise, I guess I was a buyer. :D I bought 2 bricks of 500 and 2 boxes of mini mags when I bought the rifle, matching the ammo then. I thought it was centerfire, assuming rimfire was the rarer of the two.

On the subject of "common" 22 rimfire is far from common. Yes alot of cartridges are sold compared to how many calibers of cartridges are centerfire vs rimfire. Now think about how many types of rimfire ammo are in your local gun store vs centerfire. Just because you can buy 100 times more rounds of 22 rimfire vs 45 centerfire doesn't mean your selling more boxes, just more rounds.

As far as trolling I humbly asked a question to a knowledgeable community, got some good info but some people purely flaming. I pushed back for being flamed and now I'm a "troll". :mad: Just fyi when someone asks you for advice and you mock them don't expect gratitude. For those that straighten me out on my misinformation thank you very much. I didn't mean to offend anyone and I certainly never said I was an expert of 22s. BTW knowing or not knowing rimfire is hardly the measure of gun knowledge. :rolleyes:
 
22 rimfire is far from common.
Click to expand...
That is absolutely false. It is certainly the most common type of rifle/pistol ammo sold in the U.S. and in all likelihood it outsells ALL types centerfire rounds combined.
Just because you can buy 100 times more rounds of 22 rimfire vs 45 centerfire doesn't mean your selling more boxes, just more rounds.
Click to expand...
Huh?
BTW knowing or not knowing rimfire is hardly the measure of gun knowledge.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, it is a very basic bit of information about guns and one that is, with good reason, considered to be "common knowledge."
 
Here's something for you to try. Go to the nearest store selling ammo. Look at all the ammo for sale on the shelves. You will see several brands of .22 rimfire ammo, packaged in different number of rounds per container, in different grades, with different bullet configurations, at different power levels.
Then choose another caliber and see if that caliber can match all the choices offered for the .22 caliber.
Now I bet you will see that the little round really is common.

BTW....here in the good old USA we don't even use the Berdan priming system even though it was developed here. We use the Boxer primer that was developed in England by Edward Boxer (a British ordinace officer).
 
glad you're still here. a lot of people wouldn't be, and fewer still without losing their cool.

as for commonality of rimfire at the ammo rack... when i've looked around, there's more shelf space for 22lr than any other caliber - usually including 12ga, which has a rather large size advantage. there are a lot of options in the rimfire arena, for a reason.

but, it's only for three things these days - plinking, varminting, and target shooting. it's not intended used for social work, at least not of hte euphemistic kind, which is where you're right - for 'serious' calibers, everything long ago moved to centerfire.
 
sevenpoint62mm

I did this before - I'm going to post similar again.

I do NOT mean to offend you.

ONE MORE TIME -

We have a LOT of Folks on this Forum that we really do not know their true identities. Many folks, including myself, came from TFL ( The Firing Line). Some Folks have EXTENSIVE experience in specific areas, Many have Extensive experiences in MANY areas.

ADD those folks that we DO know their identities.

WE have folks that literally wrote the textbook on Anything one might choose to learn.

These folks are willing to share and teach. ON the other hand - many folks that wrote the textbooks, have YEARS of experience , and such have been run off this forum by persons that read gun rags, play video games and "think" they know more combat than the gentleman that teaches folks to survive combat in real life.

Many of us use the Search Function a LOT, both here and at TFL. Many questions have been asked over and over again. Many of us PM folks about questions.

I can only share what I know, and my experiences. I am a guy, I and will admit right here and now, Tamara, a lady knows more about many more things than I do. I bet a dollar I could beat her like a drum on the skeet field, most likely outshoot her bird hunting.

She would make mush out of me in a NY minute on firearm history,MOA on many firearms and such. I do searches for posts by Tamara " a girl" for gosh sakes to learn.

Tell you what else, I do searches under another "girls name", pax , another lady a mom is sharp in her own area of expertise. Pax will admit she has taken a shotgun course, not her deal, fine...we ( pax and I ) do use each other off line to learn from one another.

Where folks "bow up", get defensive and accuse folks of being a "troll", is when folks around here put out the extra effort and the new member turns a deaf ear and argues.

We had one fellow that "argued" that he had the "Ultimate Shotgun" and the "Ultimate Shotgun Load" was 3.5" 00 buck. We have folks that actually hunt , I'm talking Safari's and such. You cannot be an arm chair "hunter" and tell a man whom has hunted BIG animals that will kill, you, he is wrong. You will get your credibility questioned, lose respect of the membership, and not be paid any attention to.

My advice: Go attend a NRA basic firearms class. Find someone who will teach you from step one. Cancel any subscriptions to "gun rags". Do not play video games or watch John Woo movies.

Get a subscription to SWAT, I advised this before. The Publisher owns TFL, the editor or SWAT is a moderator here. There are MANY folks that acutally write and contribute to SWAT that are moderators and members here.

Use the search function , and read a lot. Now, if you have a question, may I suggest...

" I have a question about the history of the .22 rimfire. I have done some searches and I am not clear about something, could someone please clarify for me so I better understand ?"

The heavens will part, chamber music will be heard, and angles will bring cigars and Shiner Bock to that thread.

NO offense, just some friendly advice.

This explains why "I" deleted my threads in response to you in shotguns.
I know diddly about Professional Big Game Hunting, I know squat about C&R...I did run in 12 ga alone ~25k rds a year for many many years. If I can see it - it is dead. I earned that by doing it.

Regards,

Steve
 
BTW....here in the good old USA we don't even use the Berdan priming system even though it was developed here. We use the Boxer primer that was developed in England by Edward Boxer (a British ordinace officer).
Click to expand...

Just FYI the boxer primer was developed about 12 years after Berdans design. Its generally assumed Boxer took Berdan's and Daw's ideas then built a better design from it. Many people feel Berdan is the father of CF even if it feel out of favor due to cost.

Huh?
Click to expand...

500 rounds to a brick box of 22. 50 rounds to a box of 45. Of course you sell more rounds because its cheaper, but you sell the same number of boxes. Just so we're not comparing apples or oranges here.

in all likelihood it outsells ALL types centerfire rounds combined.
Click to expand...

I bet once you count 12 gauge shells in the mix theres no way. Think about how many boxes of Dove & Quail get sold each year. :p Hey those are centerfire.

With all due respect, it is a very basic bit of information about guns and one that is, with good reason, considered to be "common knowledge."
Click to expand...

Common knowledge if you grew up shooting 22. The first rifle I ever fired was a service m-16. The first 22 I ever loaded (not shot) was my model 60.
Whats common knowledge to one may not be to another. Some very knowledgable people here might not have a clue what five-seven rounds look like. Got to keep in mind when someone asks its because they don't know.

Anyway guys I think its the title that got everyone ticked off. I know many love their rimfire 22 rounds and now that I know both my model 60 and my soon to be new Mark 2 fire them I do too. I don't do alot with 22 as I assumed bigger is better for SD rounds so I only used 22s for possoms and the like. Now I'm seeing they give alot of bang for the buck in practice.
 
I bet once you count 12 gauge shells in the mix theres no way. Think about how many boxes of Dove & Quail get sold each year. Hey those are centerfire.
Click to expand...

The .22LR is by far the most used and purchased cartridge in the world.

This might be due to the fact that the .22 is a very low recoil cartridge. Moreover, almost any .22 will shoot rings around almost any rifle or pistol, bar none.

As an example:

I sent off a Springfield Armory Milspec to have it converted to a competition gun. This gun came back with the capability of achieving 1 1/2 inch groups or slightly better at 50 yards with GI ball ammo. Mind you, it took me the price of the pistol ($300.00 used), and almost $800 of work to get it to shoot that well.

On the other hand, I purchased a Ruger Competition Model, KMK-678 (6 inch barrel, slabsided, stainless). I mounted a 4x Simmons LER scope on it and took it to the range to practice and to determine which brand of .22 to use in it.

The absolutely WORST ammo I tried put ten rounds into 1 inch, sandbagged at 50 yards. The gun likes the following ammo:

1. Winchester T22, 10 rounds into 1/2 inch.
2. Federal American Eagle 40 grain solid, right at the same measurements.
3. Wolf Match Target .22, a hair above 1/2 inch, ten rounds at 50 yards.
(Note: Wolf Match Target is actually SK Jagd .22, made in Germany.)

What have I changed on that gun? I installed a Volquartsen wide trigger.

That's it. It's still box stock.

My new competition gun, which isn't a gun itself is a Marvel .22 Unit 1, mounted on a 1911 frame. This gun just flat out shoots! And, with the compensator, it is almost perfectly steady when firing. As a matter of fact, I had a sear problem with the frame it was mounted on, and the gun went full auto for 5 rounds. It was a real treat to first realize that I had fired 5 rounds--the dot did not move from the center of the target!

The second treat was to scope the target at 25 yards and see 5 clean X's.

22's are just plain fun to shoot! And, they are available in any flavor you like--from the inexpensive Ruger and the match grade IZH ar rock bottom prices, to electric-triggered free pistols costing over $3000.00 each.
 
Thanks for the info Powderman. My primary goal with the 22 pistol is purely back to basics pistol training. I just moved from a 9mm to 45 and the flash/roar is making me flinch. I figure I'd take the advise of a work friend who mentioned 22 is the cheapest practice there is.
With that said what is a cheap but match type ammo for target shooting? Something that groups well so I know that the group span is my accuracy, not the ammo's variables.
 
what is a cheap but match type ammo for target shooting? Something that groups well so I know that the group span is my accuracy, not the ammo's variables.
Click to expand...
He just listed 3 kinds of ammo that are capable of shooting ten rounds into half an inch at 50 yards!

The American Eagle stuff goes for $10 for 550 rounds at Wal-Mart.

Is that not cheap enough?

Or are you saying that you're better than that and you need more accurate ammo?

Or did you just not bother to read his post?
 
No more being mean to him! :p

That Winchester Super X stuff should do you just fine. It seems darn accurate out of my 60.
 
He just listed 3 kinds of ammo that are capable of shooting ten rounds into half an inch at 50 yards!
Click to expand...

He said this is the The absolutely WORST ammo . Did I request whats the worst ammo I can buy? :rolleyes: Or did you just not bother to read my post?

C'mon John I already said I was wrong. What more do you want?
 
Actually his post doesn't say that those are the worst

but I'm going to try to be helpful here and not go into that.

Most people (everyone except myself apparently) have had pretty good luck with the Wolf Match Target, but it's kinda pricy around here at alittle over 3 bucks for 50.

Best thing to do is buy 50 of every brand and type you can get your hands on and try them all. 22LR's are notorious for being very individual about which ammo they like.
I've found that Aguila (either standard velocity or subsonics, depending on gun) shoots the best in my collection. And it's fairly cheap to get locally.
Good luck to you.
 
A bit more explanation...

By mentioning the differences in ammunition, what I guess I was trying to say was this--that an off-the-shelf .22 handgun will usually shoot rings around a match-tuned expensive centerfire pistol.

The specific mention of the Ruger was to bring attention to the fact that you do not have to spend $$$ for match grade ammunition. The cheap stuff will do just fine.

American Eagle in all of its configurations is by far the most ubiquitous ammunition. It is usually available everywhere--and that includes some of the Mom and Pop stores in the rural areas.

Winchester T22 is kinda not too common--you'll have to find a larger store that carries it, or special-order it.

Wolf Match Target can be a bit pricey, and it's not too common anyway. You can find some at: www.miwall.com

Some of the honorable mentions are:

Winchester copper-plated .22, Hi-Velocity
Remington Target, 100 ct. box, blue label (just try to find some, though!!)
Federal 38 grain hollow point

If you get a conversion unit like the Marvel, I recommend Federal Gold Medal Match. Kinda pricey, but it does OK.
 
Your going to get a laugh outta this. I just got home and after this rather informative thread I decided to see what got me thinking I had a CF rifle. So I look on the rifle and no where does it say RF or CF (and I looked everywhere, even the removable rod). I looked inside the breach at the hole for the firing pin and noticed its rectrangular (sp) suggesting RF. I browse through the "manual" which is about 8 pages, nothing about RF or CF. This is the stainless model w/syn wood stock and tasco scope kit, bought at Walmart in 99. From what I understand Walmart has gun makers produce slightly cheaper models kinda like Sear-Roebuck did years ago but not sure if this is true.
This puzzles me so I look at the boxes of ammo. Two boxes I have left are a 50 pack of CCI mini-mags and a 500 brick of Remington Golden Bullet 22 (picture of rounds on the front with green trim, yellow and green on the back). Neither of boxes say CF or RF anywhere on them.
Considering 22s are commonly used by young shooters wouldn't they label the bullets/rifle since this is one of only two calibers still using rimfire? I mean even rifle calibers that come in only CF are labaled CF (looking at a box of 7.62x39 UMC and 30-06 Winchester, both marked CF). Just seems a little strange. I guess the defacto round for 22s are RF so its just not listed

EDIT: for spelling and grammer
 
You know, when you open a box of .22 ammo and look at one cartridge, you know what you don't see? You don't see a primer in the center of the case. No primer in the center = not centerfire.

Look at the bolt of a centerfire. The firing pin is centered in the chamber so it will hit the primer. The firing pin on a rimfire is offset to strike near or at the rim of the chamber because that's where the primer is in a rimfire.

Try some Eley or Lapua ammo. Get the good stuff. It's only $10 to $12 dollars for a box of 50 and very consistent and accurate in most guns.

John...who stocked up on Wolf Match Target when it was $15 a brick at the gun shows. The WME was only a bit more.
 
500 rounds to a brick box of 22. 50 rounds to a box of 45. Of course you sell more rounds because it’s cheaper, but you sell the same number of boxes.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify a bit, The smallest quantity you can buy 22rimfire in is boxes of 50.
The smallest quantity you can buy of say, 45acp in is boxes of 50.
These packs of 500 or 550 loose rounds are considered "value packs"or "bulk packs" and are a fairly recent introduction into the marketing world.
For years (and even now) the standard round count in one box of 22 rimfire is 50 rounds.
Before the introduction of the loose round bricks of 500, all bricks contained ten boxes of 50 rounds (and still do among the brands, which are sold, by boxes of 50)
Where I live, we refer to a box of 22 rimfire as 50 rounds while we call a box of 500 22rimfire a " brick of 22rimfire" weather it contains loose rounds or individual boxes of 50.
 
This puzzles me so I look at the boxes of ammo. Two boxes I have left are a 50 pack of CCI mini-mags and a 500 brick of Remington Golden Bullet 22 (picture of rounds on the front with green trim, yellow and green on the back). Neither of boxes say CF or RF anywhere on them.
Click to expand...
Where did you find the 50 round boxes of CCI Mini-Mags? The CCI website only lists this product in 100 round plastic boxes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top