Status
Not open for further replies.

laea7777

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
43
I’ll say right up front that I have no experience reloading and I don’t yet own a rifle chambered in .416 Rigby. This is just a potential idea for the future.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the .416 Rigby, with handloads, could be a very versatile cartridge. With a 300 grain bullet, you could download it to .44 Magnum levels, or even between .44 Special and .44 Magnum (say, 300 grains going 1,000 fps = 666 ft-lbs of muzzle energy). With a 400 grain bullet going 2,400 fps, you could get the full 5,115 ft-lbs of muzzle energy that this caliber offers (Wikipedia claims up to 5,600 ft-lbs but I don’t think those are offered anymore; but, maybe you could still load it up that high yourself - 400 grains going 2,515 fps = 5,617 ft-lbs). And, you could get anything in between, thus covering a broad range of potential targets, anything from soda cans to elephants.

It seems to me that the light loads wouldn’t wear and tear the brass very much, so you could reload the cases many times, mitigating the generally high cost of this cartridge.

Am I missing some huge disadvantage to downloading a big cartridge (the advantage being the potential to fully load it up later)? Would there be any disadvantage to downloading it that significantly?

Thanks.
 
I think your biggest obstacle would be bullet selection that would be suitable to taking lighter game at lower velocities (if that's what you were meaning). I loaded some 416 Ruger for my pa and all we could get our hands on were the Hornady DGS. But who need expansion when you're lobbing a .416 cal bullet ;)

375 cal seems to have a much better selection.
 
AA 5744 is the bees knees for downloading big cases like that. I can load .458 Win Mag brass to .45-70 levels with it with good case fill. AA 5744 is very bulky for that purpose. It is designed for downloading calibers. Much like the old IMR-4759, which I think is discontinued, again.

Trail Boss is great for loading the .458 Win Mag to .44 Mag+ levels.
 
I think your biggest obstacle would be bullet selection that would be suitable to taking lighter game at lower velocities (if that's what you were meaning). I loaded some 416 Ruger for my pa and all we could get our hands on were the Hornady DGS. But who need expansion when you're lobbing a .416 cal bullet ;)

375 cal seems to have a much better selection.
You're right. I thought I had seen some 300 grain hollow points before but I can't find them now. The lightest I see is 350 and they're quite expensive. I was thinking a slow 300 grain would be approaching pistol caliber carbine levels of power and trajectory (such as .44 Magnum). I wonder if making the bullet as well is worth looking into. If so, it seems like you could go even lighter, like 180 grains, but that would probably sit flush with the rim of the case. I had been thinking that since the diameter is smaller than .44, why not go as light as .44? But, I hadn't thought about how much deeper a .416 sits in the case than a .44.
 
AA 5744 is the bees knees for downloading big cases like that. I can load .458 Win Mag brass to .45-70 levels with it with good case fill. AA 5744 is very bulky for that purpose. It is designed for downloading calibers. Much like the old IMR-4759, which I think is discontinued, again.

Trail Boss is great for loading the .458 Win Mag to .44 Mag+ levels.
I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the tip.
 
AA 5744 is the bees knees for downloading big cases like that. I can load .458 Win Mag brass to .45-70 levels with it with good case fill. AA 5744 is very bulky for that purpose. It is designed for downloading calibers. Much like the old IMR-4759, which I think is discontinued, again.

Trail Boss is great for loading the .458 Win Mag to .44 Mag+ levels.
Trail Boss was supposed to take the place of IMR-4759, I don't think it does that well. Trail Boss isn't a bad powder though, just not as good as 4759 IMO. AA5744 however is a great powder like said above. I use it in the 45-70 and I wouldn't want to be without it.
 
https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/416-lbt-350gr-lfn-gc/

Something like that might be an option for downloading.

Honestly if i were considering a "do all" large/dangerous game caliber id probably be looking at one of the .45s probably the .458Win. bullet selection is much better.

I have infact considered this as one of my project builds, as I LIKE bolts and single shots more than any other action type. I also want a gun i can actually use, so 99% of my shooting wojld be with .45-70 class rounds.
This IS mostly a mental exercise for me as the .458 socom fills that particular niche.....for now.....
 
The downside, or maybe unfortunate reality of downloading the mid and big bore cartridges isn't found at the reloading bench, it's found in the field. I like my .416's to tip the scales over 11lbs before scope or sling (when so equipped), which is a ridiculous weight for a 44mag equivalent rifle. I can tote a Marlin 1894 in the real deal 44mag for half the weight, and use a much cheaper projectile (barring bargain bin lead slugs, which I wouldn't shoot through my DGR's). Damned if you do, damned if you don't - cut a 416 into a paltry 9lb rifle and the recoil is less than pleasant when you get up to full house loads. A guy can get through it for a box or two a year, which is certainly more than enough to put a first-blood hole in something big then get the hell out of the way while your PH cleans up any slop. I prefer to be better practiced with my DGR's, so I prefer them to be a bit better behaved - and that mark after owning half a dozen 416's is 11lbs. A 10.5# rig would be my bottom end. Ruger's Hawkeye African and Guide Gun at 8# was a ridiculous prank - I threw a reduced in them asap.
 
I think I'd rather have two guns. How many feet off at 100 yards will a 416 rigby be when shooting 44 mag level loads?

Inches only. :)

Yup.

Running a 44mag from a rifle is something on the order of 1500-1600fps depending upon how hard you push it, the Rigby's are 2300-2400fps. It sounds like a big difference, but you're really not talking about a lot of time for a bullet to drop. 32.17ft/sec/sec... The .44mag gets to 100yrds somewhere around 1/5th of a second, the Rigby gets there around 1/8th of a second... .64ft drop vs. .25ft drop, running on the back of a napkin, of course... 4" vs. 7"... Not enough to get itchy over...
 
I would have thought it would be bigger change in POI than that just due to recoil. The only big bore I have is a 444 marlin and that one changes POI by 2-3 inches with every grain change in charge weight, let alone if you were to try to make it into a 44 mag. I may have to try some 240 grain 44 mag bullets in that with 5744 just to see what it does.
 
The downside, or maybe unfortunate reality of downloading the mid and big bore cartridges isn't found at the reloading bench, it's found in the field. I like my .416's to tip the scales over 11lbs before scope or sling (when so equipped), which is a ridiculous weight for a 44mag equivalent rifle. I can tote a Marlin 1894 in the real deal 44mag for half the weight, and use a much cheaper projectile (barring bargain bin lead slugs, which I wouldn't shoot through my DGR's). Damned if you do, damned if you don't - cut a 416 into a paltry 9lb rifle and the recoil is less than pleasant when you get up to full house loads. A guy can get through it for a box or two a year, which is certainly more than enough to put a first-blood hole in something big then get the hell out of the way while your PH cleans up any slop. I prefer to be better practiced with my DGR's, so I prefer them to be a bit better behaved - and that mark after owning half a dozen 416's is 11lbs. A 10.5# rig would be my bottom end. Ruger's Hawkeye African and Guide Gun at 8# was a ridiculous prank - I threw a reduced in them asap.
So, I guess the CZ 550 American Safari is out, in your opinion, then. That's the one I've been thinking about (9.38 lbs).
 
Mine is 458 Win Mag like Walkalong and others, all sorts of data is found everywhere.
And bullet choices abound for all 458 applications, light and heavy.

I will mention, "light" loads in large capacity cartridges is a special pursuit.
It's still a large heavy cartridge. It isn't really tricky, but it takes some work.
It would seem like it's linear and you just cut the charges. It doesn't work that way.
Like Gerk said on another forum, it's like boxing. To get good results, you have to put the rounds in.
Be prepared to acquire reloading skills first, then explore downloading with your new skills.
 
So, I guess the CZ 550 American Safari is out, in your opinion, then. That's the one I've been thinking about (9.38 lbs).
With iron sights my Rem 700 458WM is 8.5 pounds.
Bolt action large bore dangerous game guns don't get much lighter.
Even single shot like Winchester 1885 and Ruger No 1 are that heavy. On purpose.
 
So, I guess the CZ 550 American Safari is out, in your opinion, then. That's the one I've been thinking about (9.38 lbs).

Add a reducer or at least some lead ballast. I had a 550 in Rigby, I'm pining after the Big CZ in 505G currently. Nothing a little lead or mercury can't fix.

With iron sights my Rem 700 458WM is 8.5 pounds.
Bolt action large bore dangerous game guns don't get much lighter.
Even single shot like Winchester 1885 and Ruger No 1 are that heavy. On purpose.

I had a 700 in 416Rem - yup, south of 9lbs all in... Screw a lot of that. That's the kind of rifle which gives DGR's a bad name - "teeth rattling," or "retina detaching," or "shoulder bruising" legends come from rifles like that...
 
Add a reducer or at least some lead ballast. I had a 550 in Rigby, I'm pining after the Big CZ in 505G currently. Nothing a little lead or mercury can't fix.



I had a 700 in 416Rem - yup, south of 9lbs all in... Screw a lot of that. That's the kind of rifle which gives DGR's a bad name - "teeth rattling," or "retina detaching," or "shoulder bruising" legends come from rifles like that...
Out of curiosity, why did you get rid of your 550 in Rigby?

And, as far as adding weight, do you think the Aramid stock option would already have a hollow spot in it, thus making the adjustment non-permanent?
 
Out of curiosity, why did you get rid of your 550 in Rigby?

I bought the CZ before a trip to Argentina because it was available and the Ruger Express Magnum I was REALLY wanting wasn't around - until RIGHT before the trip, when I got a chance on a Ruger in 458wm, I took both, only killed with the Ruger, then when I got back, I reamed the Ruger to Lott and sold the CZ. I've since had a 550 in .375 H&H as well, and have a bare action for 416Rig sitting on the shelf (a bit over 3yrs now, still haven't built it yet - planning a specialty pistol, just for kicks).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top