Downside of reloading to light?

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If you are afraid of sticking bullets in bbl

it is better to check for something else too, b/c your slide MAY still work. When testing loads check for bullet impact downrange. Load single. Check for bore obstruction visually or run a rod down there. I stuck a bullet in a 1911 before; it ejected the case and wanted to feed another round. I didn't notice if my target had another hole in it, luckily the next round didn't fully chamber so therefore could not fire. Now I know to at least check to make sure the bullet exited at all.

AA1680 is another good powder for 50AE; I use it for heavy bullets in subsonic 300 Whisper and save the H110/W296/LilGun for lighter transonic (supersonic) loads.

Also if possible get a .44 mag or .357 bbl and load for those
 
To get back to the OP's question - check out this reloading data: http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
It shows a 325gr bullet with a starting load of 29gr H110. Granted, you probably want to double check and get data for the 300gr bullets that you're using, but the 50AE "light loads" are very close to starting loads. If they fire and cycle a DE without squibs, then happy shooting.
 
If you compare ballistics at book maximum, meaning lower velocity for heavier bullets, the heavier bullets generate more recoil.

In the example I listed above, you can clearly see the heavier bullets are launched at lower velocity.

Remington makes a managed recoil line of ammo. In every instance (caliber) they use light for caliber bullet launched at a little less than max velocity for a 50% reduction in recoil.

This is part of the OP's question. For reduced recoil you should use light for caliber bullets.
 
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Lighter bullets usually increase recoil because you need more powder to increase the pressure to burn right & function the slide.
This is 100% incorrect.
you will get a huge bang and muzzle flash with lots of powder and smaller, faster bullet but the biggest recoils is felt by the heaviest bullet. This was evident yesterday while we were shooting my 44 mag with 180g bullets, then we shot some 300g bullets, after 6 rounds of the 300's i already had a trigger guard blister.
 
ArtP

I'm sorry your haveing a hard time reading. We are talking about loading down.

I never looked at your chart tho because I prefer real life. I don't care what someone says something is should do I care about what it really does. I don't load by charts & graphs. I usually don't use manuals. With the exception I do however use burn rate charts.
 
ArtP

I'm sorry your haveing a hard time reading. We are talking about loading down.

I never looked at your chart tho because I prefer real life. I don't care what someone says something is should do I care about what it really does. I don't load by charts & graphs. I usually don't use manuals. With the exception I do however use burn rate charts.

You don't use load manuals but you do use burn rate charts which are vague at best?

Using your proven scientific methods, while dealing with controlled explosions, I'll be certain to check with you first, next time I want to develop a load.
 
Lighter bullets will have less recoil than heavier ones at the same velocity.

Recoil is a function of momentum (mass x velocity).

"Felt recoil" is an entirely subjective concept subject to anything and everything that affects the shooters perception of the round. A lighter bullet may produce less total recoil, and yet that recoil feels more "snappy" than a heavier bullet. Many will interpret that snappier felt recoil as meaning more actual recoil, but in many cases it is not.

Try it both way, and load the round that feels better to you. How it feels is the more important parameter than whether the recoil is actually more or less.
 
Whatever. You don't understand math and physics either until you can explain it to your grandmother. Einstein said that, and I figured it out myself trying to explain it to my wife. Complex ideas in nature usually have simple and elegant answers once you understand completely. Which is good, because most forums aren't conducive to displaying the mathematical formulas necessary to model these systems.

Look, when you decrease some powders, the powder burns and builds pressure at different rates compared to others. They are all different and all experience this to some degree, but it is most apparent in slow powders when used in firearms. So if you have, say a slow burning powder, and you reduce it, it will burn and expand and build pressure until it begins to push the bullet, which only requires so much pressure to get moving.

If you have the case full of a powder like H110 it will burn, expand, reach the appropriate pressure, then push the bullet.

If you have a case half full of H110 (for instance) it will burn, expand, but instead of reaching the appropriate pressure to push the bullet in a nice predicatable fashion, you get a pressure spike. It expands to fill the space, but too fast. This creates the pressure and thus the problem. It'll push the bullet, but not before the pressure jumps to a very high level that can exceed the ability of the chamber to hold.

But all isn't lost. If you "work up" your loads, you can "work down" too, but you'll need a chrono to do it best. You can't really "feel" it, although some will feel snappier than others. When you get into an unsafe area, you may not know it, but with the chrono, you'll start seeing the numbers get erratic. This is indicative of pressure spikes when using reduced loads. If you have 50fps difference, I don't see that as a problem indicator personally, but a 200fps spread is. Scale back up until you get a predicatable spread. Note that temperature will affect these numbers too, hotter gives higher pressure and cooler lower --whereas it may not be important otherwise, when dealing with max and min loads it is. Always.

This issue of pressure spikes seems to pop up most often when using low explosives in a sealed container. If the charge fills up the case, you have less problems. Half full cases of low explosives are, in fact, necessary for high power explosions in absence of high explosives. Keep this in mind, it is a rule of thumb. Because low explosives aren't very brisant, a pressure spike is desired when using it in demolition --but avoided when handloading. Remember, handloading and demolition are two different things, but some handloaders seem to confuse the two, thus KB's, which can come equally from low and high charges.

Also note that when loading subsonic ammo, you get the same problem. If you load a rifle cartridge with enough rifle powder to get subsonic velocities, you get erratic velocities and sometimes KB's too. So subsonic load data is usually scarce, and they are usually loaded using pistol powders --because they will fill the case more.

An option is to use a filler, but I haven't messed with it. A filler will prevent the pressure spike by reducing the case volume, theoretically you can use this with any load. But in practice, settling occurs, and the whole thing is dynamically modeled, so at some point you will reach a point where there is too much filler to give reliable ignition or sufficient pressure.

Another low pressure event is caused when the charge is too low, the bullet gets stuck, and then the pistol blows up. But step back and you will notice that the same thing is happening --the bullet goes so far, plugs up, but in the process creates a larger combustion chamber allowing the gas to expand and a pressure spike to occur. In this case, the pressure spike occurs before the slide reciprocates and you get the KB that way.

Bottom line: you can do it safely, but understand what you are doing. Best advice is to go with a minimum charge load using a powder that fills the case as much as possible, ie, a high volume powder.

Hope this helps, answers questions, and dispells myths.
 
Yep.

Say you have two rounds, a 200gr. bullet and a 135gr. bullet. Both are loaded such that the recoil spring is compressed to identical rates. To me, the 135 feels snappier. They have the same recoil, numerically, but it is delivered at different rates.

Impulse is the measure of force over time, it doesn't get mentioned often enough. While the forces are equal, the time in which the spring is compressed isn't, and so it feels different. Because the lighter bullet is accelerating at a faster rate than the heavier bullet, the equal and opposite reaction is that the recoil is delivered proportionately --you get the same recoil, but you get it "all at once" as it were.
 
I'm not even trying this from my phone & probably won't have time when I get to a PC. I guess grandmaw will have to just wonder.
 
I don't know much about reloading I have only been doing it for a few months....but the guy that got me started said don't ever do something that is not in the book. If you want to try lighter loads use the min that is in the book, if that is not light enough for you try a different powder that is listed in the chart. Powder is not that expensive...he always told me if I come across a powder I don't like I can always give it to him :)

All that said I do load just about everything at the min loading, I am a small guy with some health problems and just can't cake the recoil that well. I have only come across one "formula" if you will that did not work and left a bullet in my barrel.
 
How many times did you try this formula? Did you fallow it exactly? Did you pull down your other rounds to check your work? How far into the barrel did it go?

I have a hard time excepting a published load stuck a bullet.
 
Art, i do run the 300 grain. I havent ran the 325's yet.

Strykervet, good info man. THanks. I picked 29 grains because that was the lowest number on the 325 grains.

I think im just going to finish making these 50 cartridges that i have in the 29 grains and just test it out. One at a time. I have loaded 32 grains before and i couldnt tell the difference between those and the 34 grain loads.
 
The OP said he loaded 29gn of H110, the minimum load recommended in the tables.
IIRC the warning is to not go more that 3% BELOW THE MINIMUM LOAD. He is not.
 
"300 grain Hornady XTP
Powder H110
Start - 29.7 grains 1284fps
Max - 33.0 grains 1398fps
"

Thats me right there. Im 29 though. not 29.7.

Im running the bullets. Im just going to do it one at a time. AND, being these bullets are for family members or friends who want to shoot it but start off light. I doubt i will be using them much.. They are just going to be labelled light. PUll it out when needed.
 
I hate to give much advice since I don't know the powder just the stories & you know how stories go. I don't use magnum primers but this might be a good application for them & pay close attention on really cold days.

It sounds like everything is fine with your load but I don't know enough to say so.
 
I use 110/296 in a 44 mag load. The recipe calls for a max of 25 grains. I started this load at 22.5, which is below the 3% variance we're supposed to stick to with that powder (with a magnum primer).

I didn't have any problems with it, going below the variance mentioned, and would shoot that load again today if I had a reason to. But I would be awful careful to watch for the symptom of a stuck bullet, exactly as you're doing.
 
I've been around long enough to see what kind of destruction this powder can do if not done right.

You have to use Mag Primers with the WW296/110 to get a complete burn. This powder is slow burning and is hard to light off, using std primers do not cut it. Std primers will not give you a complete burn with this powder. If you have a crony you can see the instability.

If your below min with std primers I WOULD NOT SHOOT THEM. Pull them down and do it right for safety reasons. Your more likely to get a KBoom vs stuck bullet.
 
I'm aware the manufacture advises to stay within 3% of max. However my Hornady 7th manual lists starting at 20.7 with a max of 24.8 of 110/296. That recipe also uses a WLP primer.

I'm not advocating doing so, but I am using it as a reference for why I chose to start at 22.5 with a magnum primer.

My Lyman manual starts at 4% below max and obviously is more inline with the manufacturer.

Perhaps the strangest information is right from Hodgdon where they clearly warn the reloader to start at 3% below max charge (as opposed to 10% on other products). But their own starting load is 4.1% below max.
 
Lyman's 49th Edition for the 50 AE list 21.7 grs. of AL2400 with a 300 gr. Hormady for a velocity of 1094 fps. Relatively light, but personally think it'd be a little much for a child to shoot.

35W
 
The desert eagle is not meant for small people. You should only be "downloading" your ammo to the low end of the charge range. Getting a bullet stuck in the barrel is a very scary thing. It's a quick way to turn your handgun into a hand grenade.
 
Disagree on posts #5 & #9

Kingmnt,

I believe you may be giving some potentially dangerous misinformation yourself in your posts #5 and #9. Please pardon my bluntness.

I believe the OP's gun is a gas operated action. If a bullet stuck in the barrel past the gas port, the action would, indeed cycle (and probably more vigorously than normal) and a new round would chamber with potentially disastrous results if/when that round is fired. Very likely, the report would be muffled, as you said, but this is often not noticed by the shooter and the following round produces catastrophe

If the bullet stuck before it reached the port, you are indeed correct. The action very likely would not even start to cycle.

The downloading of H110 is advised against by the manufacturer. They emphasis VERY strongly against reducing loads more than 3%.

I admit the existence of the so-called "detonation" or pressure spikes (by small charges of slow-burning powders in large cases) is controversial. There are those who believe it does not exist, and, indeed, the phenomenon has been impossible to reproduce reliably in ballistics laboratories. Its unreliability notwithstanding, I have read credible first-hand accounts of blowing up guns with small charges in large cases.

As I said, some people do not believe it happens. I do. I also believe that to dismiss the possibility in the absence of proof carries some risk.

If I misunderstood your posts, please forgive me and correct me.

To the O.P. (original poster): Thanks for asking our advice.

Every gunpowder has a pressure range (or performance envelope) within which its burn rate is predictable and stable. The recipes you find in load manuals are presumed to be operating within that performance envelope. Some handloaders (I am excluding professional ballisticians in my opinion) go outside the loading manuals. The good ones do this carefully, as I am sure Kingmtn does, observing signs of overpressure, velocity changes, etc and using good safety precautions.

Most handloaders do not push the envelopes. Instead, they decide on a velocity or power level they want and select a powder that the load manuals suggest will deliver that performance, usually in the mid-range between the maximum and minimum loads. Then they go and buy that powder and load up a few rounds below what they expect will deliver their desired performance and work up the where they want. A chronograph helps, but I loaded for years without one.

Since yours is a gas-operated action, you will want a clean-burning powder as well so it will be easier to clean the operating piston and the gas port doesn't get clogged with soot. Powders operating at the higher end of their pressure range tend to burn cleaner than at the lower end of their pressure range. This is just a general trend, though, not a hard and fast rule.

Good luck,

Lost Sheep

p.s. I missed Strykervet's post #34 before I composed mine. It is one of the best explanations of the various ways to blow up a gun I have ever read. Thanks Strykervet.
 
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Lost sheep

Thanks for being blunt. It makes everything so much easier.

I agree I'm ignorant of this gun & powder so if it is gas operated instead of blow back then I can't say it wouldn't load the next round. I know enough to know how they work but don't use them & not very informed about them.

Please never fell wrong to correct me where I'm wrong. This is one of the reasons I keep pointing out I don't know the gun or the powder.

I didn't even have load data for this cartridge. I said I don't use manuals but I do have 1 & data I use to reference cartridges I don't know or get dimensions. My powders have no reliable data.
 
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