Downsides to have a 11.5" AR Upper in a SHTF scenario?

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EdLaver

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I have been contemplating a 16" upper for my AR but I want to use that money for another toy (Grendel). Can a 11.5" barrel be effective enough to have the proper velocities needed to cause damage with .223/5.56 out to mmmmm lets say 75 yards? (Anything farther, I would use my FN .308 Bolt action)
 
Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. The 11.5" barrel will put bullets in lethal places if you do your part at the kinds of ranges where you are justifiably defending yourself during a SHTF scenario. The internet fixation on fragmentation range does not have a whole lot to do with 5.56mm terminal ballistics in the real world -- over in the cat box, guys are routinely killing folks with 14.5" or shorter barrels at ranges that various websites and people on the internet will assure you the 5.56mm round does not do the job.

If you're talking about a true SBR 11.5", I'd say it's great. If it is a non-SBR with the long flash hider, I'd say you might as well get more barrel for your legally required 16" -- if it has to be there, it might as well bring something to the table.
 
The only downside would be reduced ability to make shots over 200 yards. Or maybe 100 yards?
 
over in the cat box, guys are routinely killing folks with 14.5" or shorter barrels at ranges that various websites and people on the internet will assure you the 5.56mm round does not do the job

I have a friend that recently returned from a tour in Iraq that told me he saw a few marines pecking off insurgents with 11.5" scoped AR's at up to 200 yards with 77grn military ball ammo
 
If you live in a state where you can SBR, then get a suppressor too and make it really good for SHTF.
 
If you think you might need to bug out across state lines with an SBR, make sure you always have an approved Application to Transport Interstate for your destination on hand.

Transporting an SBR across state lines without one is a federal felony. :mad:
 
low velocity. LOUD, some ammo provides prodigious muzzle blast, LOUD. Some lots of ammo with slower powders has trouble reaching 2300FPS from the CAR length barrels.

.223 at that velocity is just a hole driller, .223 hole going in, same going out...

The whole SBR troubles make it really a dubious choice to keep as a SHTF fan rifle as look at NOLA during Katrina, are you going to leave it behind? If you try to bring it with, who is going to approve your transport papers? A 16 in barrel is plenty short.

Truth be told, there are a lot of arguements to be made that in the short barrel version, a MP5/10 or 40 is a better short range weapon.
 
.223 at that velocity is just a hole driller, .223 hole going in, same going out...

Depeding on bullet weight. That statement is true for 55gr stuff, but there are many alternatives.

Hornady TAP for example works very well in a 11.5" barrel and is what I keep loaded in mine.

A suppressor makes sense, I have one as soon as ATF finishes their monkeying around.......

sbr.jpg
 
I've read that with a barrel under 14 inches the AR becomes less reliable because of it's gas system. I don't have any personal experience with short barreled AR's or AR pistols, just read others claimed experiences. FWIW
 
Well, you are limited to shooting while in an exposed position. What you really need is one of these:
DSCF4042.gif

The other plus is that it still has a laser sight, scope, bayonet, tactical light, and a muzzle brake.
 
I've read that with a barrel under 14 inches the AR becomes less reliable because of it's gas system.

Not really. Get down less than 11.5 maybe now and then, but 11.5 is not a problem.
 
I have two Colt 6933s and have had limited trigger time with them but have had no issues. I have a suppressor for one of them in processing with the ATF right now and hope to take receipt of the suppressor from my dealer in the next couple of weeks.

Ammo selection is everything when you're talking about 10.5"-11.5" ARs. Use the heavier 75 and 77 grain loads from Hornady and Black Hills and you'll have reliable fragmentation out to at least 75 yards. You might want to think about just what kind of SHTF you're envisioning. If you suspect that civilization will resume (like after a localized natural disaster) then I would caution you about taking shots at people 100 yards away, as you may eventually find yourself in a courtroom trying to explain why that person was an immediate threat to you.

On the subject of reliability, my understanding is that on the military CQBR, or Mk 18 Mod. 0, the gas port is opened from 0.062" to 0.070" in order to get the rifle to function more reliably.
 
Bushmaster 11.5 inch barrel
Rock River lower
Daniel Defense rail
Surefire FA556K-B suppressor
Aimpoint M3 4MOA dot
Aimpoint 3x magnifier
DSC00836.gif

:D
 
I too like the 11.5" barrel, but for my Bushmaster Carbon 12, model 21 pistol. It has a 7.5" barrel and is literally tack-driving accurate at 50 yards off the bench. I do mean, literally tack-driving accurate. If I had not seen with my own eyes the groups that it can produce with a scope, I would not believe it. Reliability is a mute point. I have never had any FTF, nor FTE, no fails to anything. To date, I have fired about 400 rounds through it, using FMJs, HPs, spire points, etc, ranging from 45 to 62 grains. All function and all are accurate. My rationale for the 11.5" barrel is to compete in unlimited class for pistol steel silhouette competitions. The added barrel length would net me an additional about 100FPS, and with a heavier load, say 75-grain bullet, I would net a little more impact on the steel.

For my part, rather than buy an 11.5" barrel, and requiring all the extra hassle of carrying the paper for an AR short-barreled rifle, I bought the pistol...problem solved and nothing to forget. The whole package quite simply cannot be made more compact either. By the way, the ammunition that is literally tack-driving accurate with this pistol is Remington's UMC (yellow box) 45 grain hollow point...a factory load. Believe it or not! It prints 5 rounds into a cluster that measures .28" (outside-to-outside)! To prove the accuracy to my friends, I had to then shoot 5 separate targets, each 1 shot into the center dot. Then they believed me Re: the extreme accuracy. For the competitions, I will be firing (I believe) at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. I will not be permitted to use this HP ammunition, because it would damage the steel silhouettes. I have been told that I will have to use downloaded spire points. I just began looking into these competitions and hope to begin this coming spring.

Edit to add:

I am a firm believer in the fact that how one breaks-in the barrel, significantly effects how it shoots. I break-in all of my target/hunting barrels using the following sequence:

Fire 1 round then clean (Repeat 10 times) 10 shots
Fire 2 rounds then clean (Repeat 5 times) 10 shots
Fire 3 rounds then clean (Repeat 5 times) 15 shots
Fire 4 rounds then clean (Repeat 5 times) 20 shots
Fire 5 rounds then clean (Repeat 5 times) 25 shots

There after clean every 20 to 30 rounds depending on how much fouling the given powder produces. Also, I never use a wire brush.

View attachment 293405
 
I'm curious, why the magnifier on an SBR?

Why not? I've fired mine out to 300 yards. It's not like the bullet gets out to 100 and just drops onto the ground.

Would it be effective against personnel at 300 yards? Prolly not, but it will still shoot a nice group out that far.
 
I regularly shoot my suppessed 12" SBR to 300-400 yards using an Aimpoint Comp M2 (1x red dot) at multi-gun matches. Last weekend I threw on a TA11 ACOG and was able to make hits on a 12x18" plate at 700 yards.

The round does not have maximum effectiveness at longer distances, but the carbine is capable of making the hits.
 
look at NOLA during Katrina, are you going to leave it behind? If you try to bring it with, who is going to approve your transport papers?
Here is what you can do: once a year (say the beginning of December) submit forms for your favorite out of state locations, good from 1/1 through 12/31 of the following year. The approved forms will arrive in the mail a couple of weeks later. That way you are prepared if you need to leave at a moment's notice.
 
I just don't see the point personally as I have other carbines that I would use in that case, but to each his own.
 
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