sarduy
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Or a KR-103
DPMS AK-47
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sarduy
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We have to look at the product instead of the name alone, if Daniel Defence buys Hipoint firearms name and start building ARs with that name, I would buy it without any issues, at the end of the day it’s just a stamped name, just like some Colt receivers are made by Anderson…
look at the Kalashnikov-USA KR-103, Yes it’s us made but it’s pretty much a us made Saiga. Another example is the US made Glock vs the Imported ones.
look at the Kalashnikov-USA KR-103, Yes it’s us made but it’s pretty much a us made Saiga. Another example is the US made Glock vs the Imported ones.
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mcb
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I agree whole heartedly. I don't buy anything based solely on brand . That said I find it disingenuous when companies do what PSA is doing with DPMS. DPMS as a company is completely dead, PSA only got the name, logo, and maybe some of the technical data packaged for DPMS products. I simply find this slapping the DPMS brand name on a gun that does not fit the brand's history as an insult to the brand and the customer. If your going to buy the DPMS name at least start with some of the products DPMS was know for, even if you later evolve the brand with new products. The GII was a fairly unique 308 platform that probably should have been more commercially successful if Remington had advertised it more. I would have a lot more respect for PSA if they revived that rifle and put the DPMS brand on it than wasting the DPMS brand on an AK...
gotboostvr
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mcb
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Yes,PSA bought, DPMS, AAC, H&R, Storm Lake Barrels and Parker Shotguns. If this is what they are going to do with DPMS I am sort of scared of what they will do with the rest. I am not holding my breath for any more 51T mounts for my SDN-6...
gotboostvr
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I'm hoping that selling the AK's as DPMS's was just a marketing thing since PSA branded AK's have a bit of a bad reputation.
It seems they've got them figured out (at least better) than they were, but were probably having a hard time selling them due to the early missteps. So they rebranded them to help them move and other products they have the IP for will start rolling out soon.
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mcb
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I guess, but when I saw that DPMS AK the first thing I did was try to figure out who actually made it since DPMS has never made anything related to AK's before. But then again I knew the instant I saw it, it was a PSA since I also knew PSA's parent company had bought DPMS. My problem is PSA is using the fact that most gun owners are not aware of the industry and are thus deceiving the buyers to sell their products. I guess the old adage, "Buyer beware!" still holds. I was hoping for better from JJE Capital Holdings when they bought those parts of Remington, but I was disappointed. Such is life, I will get over it, or not...
BreechFace
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Do you have any information you can provide on PSA making this for DPMS or are you just assuming this because JJE Capital Holdings owns both?
Not questioning you just would like to know firmly for myself. I would assume the same as you that PSA would be making them to sell under DPMS.
If this is the case, and they are made to the standards of the new Gen5 AK's coming out of PSA then they should be a great option, if someone needs to have the DPMS name.
Recently a representative of PSA said that they were using the DPMS brand to supply product to gun retailers. Almost all PSA built firearms are sold directly to individuals. So gun shops don't stock PSA ARs because individuals can buy from PSA and get them for less than a gun shop would sell them for after markup. Rebranding a PSA AR or AK as a DPMS allows retailers to buy their product and not have to compete based on the lowest price with PSA's direct to consumer model.
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mcb
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That makes sense and yet IMHO makes it no better.
twarr1
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Why don’t we just be honest? What PSA is doing is plain deception. It’s one thing to buy a company it’s IP and it’s equipment, another thing entirely to buy a name and slap it on a completely unrelated product.
Why else would PSA use the DPMS name if they aren’t hoping at least some people will think their AK is made by the same people as the old GII?
Why else would PSA use the DPMS name if they aren’t hoping at least some people will think their AK is made by the same people as the old GII?
OMG DPMS is selling AK47's the Horror! That would be like Smith & Wesson selling 1911's or Ruger selling AR15's!!!
Oh Wait...
At least the company that bought the DPMS name is doing something with it. We can hope there will be more offerings in the future.
I like PSA. Haven't heard many negatives on their AK47's.
Oh Wait...
At least the company that bought the DPMS name is doing something with it. We can hope there will be more offerings in the future.
I like PSA. Haven't heard many negatives on their AK47's.
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mcb
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Would you say the same if the first Marlin released by Ruger was not a lever action? Ruger ain't that stupid.
S&W and Ruger did not get completely shut down and then their brands sold out of bankruptcy and then had their name slapped on a gun type they had never made previously. S&W and Ruger evolved and while maintaining their core products branch out into new areas growing their business market.
I am not say we should be horrified by it. Who know this new DPMS AK might ultimately be a great product and might turn into a great brand but those of us paying attention are rather disappointed at least in the short term.
ClaymoreAKM
Member
I have a good friend who is one of the guys that runs their barrel company
After Remington bought DPMS they shut down the St. Cloud factory and it ceased to exist as an operating company. It became just a name slapped on rifles built by Remington employees in Remington factories. Some ARs were branded DPMS, some branded Bushmaster and other ARs were sold as Remington. PSA is not besmirching the great name of DPMS. Frankly I think most people were surprised that someone even wanted to buy the name at all.
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mcb
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Not exactly right. Remington kept St Cloud open for several years after the acquisitions. Remington bought DPMS in 2007 and did not shut down St Cloud until 2015. Remington also offered jobs to any and all DPMS employees, that offer included generous relocation packages to come to Huntsville and help run the new factory down here. I know several former Remington employees that had come to Huntsville from St Cloud. There was a very nice continuity in production and even employees through that transition. That cannot be said of the Remington to PSA transition for DPMS.
Yes, by 2015 all DPMS, Bushmaster, Remington, and Remington Defense AR-15 based uppers and lowers, all came off the same machines here in Huntsville. They were all part of the same company at that point and had been for years and yet there were distinctions between the brands. The DPMS GII was designed my Remington engineers in Elizabethtown KY as that was the R&D center for the entire Remington Outdoor Company and its family of brands, until it was moved to Huntsville in 2015. Remington was far FAR from perfect but it did respect the brands it had for the most part even if the company as a whole was mismanaged.
Sure Lever Actions were Marlin's Bread & Butter but that wasn't all they offered.
How about a Ruger Model 60 22LR or a Ruger Camp Carbine? I bet folks would line up for a new Camp Carbine.
The DPMS (PSA) AK is competitively priced for the current market.
https://atlanticfirearms.com/ak-47-74-rifles?criteria[availability]=in_stock&limit=999999999
Long gone are the days when AK's could be had for $300.
Initial reviews of the DPMS ak look good:
BreechFace
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It should PSA’s Gen3-5 AK’s got good reviews from AKOU. So if the DPMS is just a rebranded PSA Gen3+ then I would think it would do well in his reviews.
Bcwitt
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If you built an AK in the USA the way they build them in Russia or China, it would cost more than an M 14. I'd guess it would cost about 2000 to 2500 to match import quality. That's what currency values do. Also, there are no labor unions there, either. US gun manufacturers would never go to as much trouble as thay do. Nor would they torture test them the way the Russians do. Quality of an AK is all in the fit of the parts. I've build several of them, so I can say that.
Ignition Override
Member
PSA GF3: 5,000 Rounds Later - Done and Done! - YouTube This is Rob, with AKOU.
Good results. At 9:22 he describes how locking lugs, shoulders, bolt carrier tails should appear after 5.000 rds. - here, as a result of PSA's use of high grade steel and with very good quality control during assembly.
He also checks headspace and rivets periodically during his evaluations.
This rifle appears to exhibit about the same levels of moderate wear (after 5,000 rds.) as the WASR 10, Arsenal SAM, Zastava ZPAP and a number of other brands, which -also- are known to have high quality components and assembly.
—Note that Ive never owned or used a PSA gun—
Good results. At 9:22 he describes how locking lugs, shoulders, bolt carrier tails should appear after 5.000 rds. - here, as a result of PSA's use of high grade steel and with very good quality control during assembly.
He also checks headspace and rivets periodically during his evaluations.
This rifle appears to exhibit about the same levels of moderate wear (after 5,000 rds.) as the WASR 10, Arsenal SAM, Zastava ZPAP and a number of other brands, which -also- are known to have high quality components and assembly.
—Note that Ive never owned or used a PSA gun—
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Bcwitt
Member
A lot of US makers are going w a casting for a trunnion. Russian & Warsaw pact are usually forged or billets. There are no bells & whistles that can compensate for that. That is the crux of the matter, fit or no fit.
Ignition Override
Member
Bcwitt:
Yes, and discussions on AKfiles (a number of AK builders) always recommend forged vs. cast components.
When IO decided to No longer manufacture their “controversial” AKMs,
the influence of the reviews on AKOU might have been seriously underestimated by most AKM owners.
Yes, and discussions on AKfiles (a number of AK builders) always recommend forged vs. cast components.
When IO decided to No longer manufacture their “controversial” AKMs,
the influence of the reviews on AKOU might have been seriously underestimated by most AKM owners.
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BreechFace
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Robski, like him or not does a great evaluation of AK’s and finds their weaknesses. Most often in the poor metallurgy of the trunnions and tail of the bolt with deformation and scarring.
I’ve been following PSA’s AK since the Gen1 and his reviews of it like any of the other cast trunnions showed failures after prolonged round count. PSA listened and improved the metallurgy over the course of the Gen’s and it showed itself in his reviews in lack of deformation and scarring.
Don’t buy any PSA AK’s before Gen 3. But in my opinion I think PSA has solved the poor reputation US AK’s have had.
I’ve been following PSA’s AK since the Gen1 and his reviews of it like any of the other cast trunnions showed failures after prolonged round count. PSA listened and improved the metallurgy over the course of the Gen’s and it showed itself in his reviews in lack of deformation and scarring.
Don’t buy any PSA AK’s before Gen 3. But in my opinion I think PSA has solved the poor reputation US AK’s have had.
IMO, I would never have called DPMS a high quality AR brand before Remington bought them. They were affordable rifles that generally worked well. I think PSA fits that definition these days. I have owned a couple of their AR's and they worked pretty good. The more recent one even had pretty good fit/finish. Everything I have heard of their current AK rifles is they are good shooters. They come in cheaper than than any other brand I would consider buying. I would rather see them on gun store shelves that a certain other brand.
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mcb
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Quality, good or bad, of DPMS or PSA has zero to do with my objections to this marketing move by PSA to brand their AK's with their newly acquired DPMS brand. The result of this mild marketing deception and disrespect (for lack of a better word) for the DPMS brand, is for me personally to trust JJE Capital Holdings less and likely spend less of my money with any of their brands. JMHO and YMMV.
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