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Dpms Ar?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by camoman33935, Oct 5, 2008.

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  1. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    By requirement those ARs would have to be built according to the TDP, and would therefor be substantially better than DPMS' commercial offerings. With more than 40 years in service the M16/M4 line of rifles are very mature in terms of refinement and technical data.
     
  2. Heck

    Heck Member

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    Is Stag still Making the S&W rifle?
     
  3. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Nope. S&W brought it in house pretty early on because Stag kept building them with out-of-spec receivers. The Stag built guns have Mossberg barrels, marked "5.56 Nato". The S&W built guns have T/C barrels marked "5.56 NATO".
     
  4. possum

    possum Member

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    if they did would you stop writing about it and join the army?

    are you sir in the military? or have you ever been?
     
  5. NavajoNPaleFace

    NavajoNPaleFace Member

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    possum, if it's any of your concern I served in the Army from '68 to '71.

    I know a thing or two about government contracts on firearms. Just leave it at that.

    I will not discuss this any further with you since you have ALL the answers.

    Besides "our" discussions are taking away from the purpose of the thread.
     
  6. ForneyRider

    ForneyRider Member

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    ya'll gonna get this thread locked.

    I like the DPMS discussion, I hope we can get back on track.
     
  7. IndianaBoy

    IndianaBoy Member

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    A colt will likely be a better rifle than a dpms. That is not to say a mpi/shot peened bolt won't break after 100 rounds, but it is less likely to do so, statistically.

    For the average shooter, a dpms will be fine. Make sure the carrier key is well staked. If you are really paranoid, buy a spare bolt.

    4140 vs 4150 is a pointless argument unless you have a rdias.

    Sure the colt is better.

    Better still? Buy the highest quality components and assemble it yourself with strict attention to detail. Properly torque everything, stake what needs it... And then test it thoroughly. Even colt ships some lemons.
     
  8. Tarvis

    Tarvis Member

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    I have the ultimate solution: Go buy one and shoot it for 6 months, make a log book noting every time you clean or modify the rifle and every round fired, then decide based on first hand observations. Problem solved; no opinions, "facts" or misrepresentations to cloud your decision.

    Happy Hunting
     
  9. onebigelf

    onebigelf Member

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    I've got a DPMS 16" Stainless bull barrel with a flattop. It's been flawless, I just wish I'd gotten a 16" CAR or midweight barrel upper instead of the bull. The bull barrel is frightfully accurate with 69gr Sierra match hollowpoints over 24gr of Varget, but I've gotten into service match shooting and I can't use it for that. I have to borrow my brother's M-4gery (also a DPMS upper). Both have been run upwards of 600rnds at a time, neither has hiccuped.

    John
     
  10. possum

    possum Member

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    great advice, i wish more people would take it and run with it, i agree 100%
     
  11. SHvar

    SHvar Member

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    Decide for yourself what you want.

    Ive looked at, handled, shot, maintained, compared, and carried, colt, DPMS, bushmaster, olympic arms, Remington, etc.
    I can tell you from experience that if you were to rate them by quality colt ARs would be a benchmark, among the others I would rate colt as medium or average quality.
    The Smith and Wesson just like all of their firearms are low to medium quality, and very overpriced. S&W products (from anyone who has ever owned them, or shot many of them) have obvious machining mistakes, faults, and in general look like a high school metal shop class machined them. This translates to accuracy loss in the end.
    Bushmaster are of obvious better quality than either of the 2 listed above, it takes a simple look at them, and to compare how the parts fit, function, and the general finish of the protective coating.
    DPMS are good quality, I personally chose them after comparing the others in person. The first thing you notice is the finish of the protective coating it is better. Next when field stripping them, the DPMS parts fit better than colt and some of the others, tighter, better tolerances, and less movement between the upper and lower reciever.
    Firing the DPMS, it has not jammed or had one malfunction with thousands of rounds through it (but then again ARs in general are alot more reliable and durable than they are given credit for, the claims of a few malfunctions always get blown out of proportion by people who have never even seen one yet claim alot of crap about them).
    Ive seen DPMS firearms that were in military service (yes they supplied M-16s in quanities just like some of the others), the finish and coating seems to hold up longer, they seem to feel new and shoot like new longer than colt.
    Its personal choice which brand you pick, all are more than good enough for the average person to own, shoot, and depend on. And dont listen to those who will tell you that price is everything. Compare them first hand for yourself. My DPMS is far more accurate than any AR from any other manufacturer Ive ever compared, but then again accuracy is what they are famous for.
    Accuracy comes from a combination of closer tolerances, higher quality, better fit and finish, the parts matching better.
    About colt ARs and M-16s, that nifty product called an accuwedge, it was created to get rid of the slop between a colt ar-15 upper and lower reciever and make it more accurate for match shooting, also for those who mix and match upper and lowers that are not matching so well.
    Olympic arms are alot better quality than some people give them credit for, in fact most claims about them are from one complaint, from one person. The other people who cry about them have probably never even seen one, let alone shot one.
    Its your choice, look them over in shops, strip them apart, compare fit and finish, function of parts, how they work together, and how smooth they operate, if you get the chance shoot a few of each.
    Firing thousands of rounds a day without cleaning them is a decent test, but very few people will ever do that. Personally Ive done that with a few manufacturers. Colt and DPMS, Ive seen durability tests done on DPMS with 1,000-10,000 rounds fired non-stop through them, the weapon never once hesitated, this is not a true test of high quality, but a standard of what they should be able to endure, I dont think I would try that with Smith and Wesson, my personal experience with many of their weapons shows low quality and way overpriced.
    Colt simply put their prices up years ago to make people think that their rifles are better in comparison. Also they have an incestuous relationship with the DOD, and unfortunately it keeps them going with endless contracts. Not complaining about their weapons, but Id definitely say that the M-16A2 was far better in quality than the M-16A1, the A1 was made here in the US, the A2 was made by Fabrique National in Belgium, this prevented M-16 parts from being more frequently distribuited without the proper permits, also took advantage of the quality control offered by FN, which colt has owned for many years.
     
  12. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    If they were in Military service, they built according to the TDP. DPMS Commercial offerings don't come close to being built to the TDP.
    I've owned Colt and consider them amongst the best.
    Did you examine an early, and problematic, Stag built M&P 15; or a later M&P 15 built in house? What other "low to medium quality" S&Ws have you owned?
    Non stop you say? Bartholomew Roberts has posted about what happens when an M4 is fired truly non stop. Barrels tend to overheat and experience catastrophic failure at or shortly after 4,000 rounds IIRC. What, pray tell, wonder steel was this 10K round non stop firing DPMS barrel made from?
    Again, please elaborate.
    All top tier ARs cost more. MPI & HPT on bolts & barrels cost money. Properly staking critical parts requires more time on the assembly line, therefor higher production cost.
    Colt currently makes only the M4. All other M16s are made by FN. Also, Colt's sole source contract for the M4 ends next year.
    You've proven your lack of knowledge. FN does not make the M16A2/A3/A4 in Belgium. They're made in the US, at FNMI. What does FNMI stand for? Where in the US is it located?
    Colt does not own FN. FN does, however, own Browning and USRAC (the company who owns the tooling & has the license to build Winchester firearms).

    Welcome to the forum, but please get your facts straight before you post.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2008
  13. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    I had gunshow tables for some twenty-five years. Handled a sizable number of S&Ws during that time. Even kept a half-dozen or so around from time to time, as shooters. My experience is just the opposite from the claims of SHvar. Excellent fit, finish, triggers, sights...
     
  14. chbrow10

    chbrow10 Member

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    Here's why I'd buy a DPMS: I just returned from the MGM Targets-USAMU Junior camp in Fort Benning. DPMS was a sponsor, and brought 4 or 6 AR-15s for everyone to shoot. The rifles were great, the representative was more knowledgable than I on the products. But the real reason is that someone from DPMS talked Remington Arms into donating 50,000 rounds of ammo to the camp. Every junior shooter who wanted to shoot free ammo got to. I will buy from people who directly support this sport. DPMS and Remington Arms literally put thier money where their mouth is and ponied up for the kids.

    That's why I'd buy a DPMS.
     
  15. possum

    possum Member

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    that is awesome, and a great thing to see. thanks for sharing.
     
  16. innerpiece

    innerpiece Member

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    I got a DPMS Sportical today, even tho possum wouldnt like it, I do.. ;) but thats because its mine.. Id expect him to like his more too, as he quite obviously does.

    I think whats most important is that folks buy what they need for their specific application.. like I said before, not everyone is a commando, soldier, or LEO...

    If I was over in the sand like my brother in law, whos been there on n off for 8 years, I might choose a different tool for that job... but Im not there...

    nor is much of this topic....

    but I know I am glad to have this DPMS so far, and if it functions well, and I become proficient with it, Im gonna rep the hell out of it!

    ip :)
     
  17. possum

    possum Member

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    congrats on the ar, and your above post i agree with 100%. please keep us informed with text and pics, it would be greatly appreciated.
     
  18. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    +1

    while their M4-style offering isn't in the same league as Colt's, in my experience, they make excellent rifles for CMP/NRA HP and they support the community, RKBA, etc. And their stuff is reasonably priced. I'm glad they're in business.
     
  19. innerpiece

    innerpiece Member

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    right on, thanks, will do.
    wanna start tonight, but gotta let the kids sleep..lol

    Ill have some pics up tomorrow.

    laters, ip.
     
  20. 230RN
    • Contributing Member

    230RN Marines raising the left-leaning Pisa tower.

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    I got an AR-15 for the simple reason that I didn't know anything about them and wanted to learn.

    I poked around a little and lo! a DPMS Panther fell into my lap.

    Fired fifteen rounds through it without a hiccup.

    I'm happy.

    I wish you guys would quit bickering and puffing about relative experiences, etc, when you are approaching the subject from completely different angles.

    I fired fifteen rounds through mine.

    I'm happy.
     
  21. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    heh, did you call Crane yet? :)
     
  22. possum

    possum Member

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    wow did you learn a lot in that 15rds, did you accomplish anything with that 15rds? why 15 that is such an odd number!



    awesome, can't wait
     
  23. innerpiece

    innerpiece Member

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    230RN's post is one of the two:

    - the most snide, snobbish, passive/aggressive comments, just to stir it up a bit;)

    or

    - a wonderful display of ignorance that simpily CANT reflect on any one but that person....

    pretty shure with over two thousand posts, in only 2 years, it wouldnt be the latter.... riiight?!..... riiiiiight..

    eitherway, carries no relevance, and is butt a mere fart in the wind. and some folks like to add nothing but poop to conversations...

    ip.
     
  24. SHvar

    SHvar Member

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    About S&W, etc....

    I own a S&W handgun that has been around for years, its obvious that S&W made it, just as I described above, bad quality, obvious lousey machining mistakes, of which some I corrected myself.
    Ive been in law enforcement for years now, and the army many years ago, S&W handguns compared to some other manufacturers are cheap, and not very well made, with obvious mistakes on many of them.
    So I guess Ill be called a liar next.
    Ive looked at new S&W ARs a few times, all looked average quality compared to the other companies I mentioned.
    After years experience with their other products I sure wounldnt spend hundreds extra on one of their ARs.
    The choice is yours what you want to buy, but my knowledge on this subject comes from actual experience with colt, bushmaster, FN, dpms, etc etc.
    The DPMS that was tested with 10,000 rds was a 20 inch barrel, not a carbine, but Ive seen DPMS carbines fire 1000 rds with only a break long enough to change magazines. And multiple times thousands of rds fired a day.
    Ive personally fired 1000-4000 plus rds a day through colt with no problems, just not as well made as the other 2.
    Anyone who has picked them up, looked at them, field stripped them, and fired them knows what Im talking about. Bushmaster, DPMS, are a bit better quality than a colt. Believe me the colt Ar-15 is good quality, I have no complaints about them, but not as good as the DPMS or Bushmaster.
    By the way if you go to almost any manufacturer of ARs, you can get milspec, basic models, and models equipped far beyond milspec.
    By comparing anything made by DPMS I see models equipped the same, and produced the same as colt or bushmaster, but an average lower price.
    Take similarly equipped models from each company, compare them, you will see what I mean.
    By the way why is it that in over 20 years Ive never seen one AR-15/M-16 made by any of the manufacturers experience a catastrophic failure? Maybe the people I know, work with, and have worked with maintain their weapons, because they rely upon them, risking their lives every day. I can count the total number of rounds that jammed in those years on one hand, the mistake was always a faulty round, a bad magazine, or a mistake by the shooter.
    The best way to make your mind up is for your own reasons, but compare all of them in person as I did before you make up your mind. Dont go by rumors, or what sounded good to someone on paper, or on their computer screen.
    Ive been fortunate to have 20 years plus experience with several AR-15/M-16s to make my mind up, along with many thousands of 5.56x45 and .223 rds to make use of, along with other rifles such as the mini-14 (no comparison, a different type of rifle, and nowhere near as accurate as any AR).
    Ill stick with my DPMS. If I feel like buying another AR some day it will probably be another DPMS also, unless maybe H&K makes a semiauto 416 available here.
    Quality translates to accuracy, try it for yourself.
     
  25. innerpiece

    innerpiece Member

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    does that mean you like DPMS? ;)
     
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