Quantcast

DPMS Sweet 16 Q's ["Full size" Bolt, .223/5.56, & BUIS]

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Thalinor, Dec 14, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Thalinor

    Thalinor Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Greetings

    I just traded in my Bushmaster AR-15 Carry Handle Carbine for a DPMS Panther Sweet 16 (A total flat top, no fixed iron in the front or rear). The reasons why I made this trade are irrelevant to this post so I will just move on and get to the point…

    Link to Rifle on DPMS's site: http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=12

    When the dealer sold me the rifle he mentioned that the Sweet 16 used a “full size m16 bolt”. It was the end of the day and the place was closing so I did don’t have time to get into what that meant and thus the following question: What do they mean when the say “uses a full size m16 bolt”?

    1) Does this mean that if I were to replace the bolt I would need to get something other than the standard AR-15 bolt sold for Bushmasters, etc? I found a complete stainless bolt for an AR-15; will it work in the Sweet 16? If I need replacement parts for the bolt (gas rings, firing piston, etc) will standard AR15 parts work?

    2) If the SHTF and I were standing in front of a M16 that was damaged beyond repair but that had an undamaged bolt, could I drop it in my Sweet 16 because it is using a “full size m16 bolt”? (Side note, I am fully aware that it’s the sear in the lower that makes the M16 burst/auto, not the bolt. I ask the question because I am worried about replacement parts (specifically the bolt assembly) in a worst case scenario.)

    The following information may not be correct, it’s only what I remember being told on several occasions. I have time and time again that there are four brands [made by 3 different manufactures] that are TRUE .223/5.56 barrels. These are Bushmaster, Armalite, RRA, and DPMS. From what I was told two of the brands above [I do not remember which two] use the same manufacturer for their parts, just different labels on those parts.

    Armed with this [probably incorrect] information, it’s possible I made a real error in judgment. While I am ignorant when it comes to a lot of this stuff, I know enough that whatever it says on the barrel is what the firearm takes, regardless of what it says on the lower receiver. In the back of my head I knew DPMS sold rifles that were chambered for both 5.56 and .223, so when I asked the dealer and he pointed out it said 5.56/.223 on the lower receiver, I did not stop to look under the barrel for what it said there. It was only after I got the rifle home that I noticed on the barrel it said .223 1-9 twist with NO mention of 5.56 anywhere on the barrel.

    I have read countless times that most decent barrels chambered in .223 will handle the higher pressures of the 5.56 with no problems, but in the end it bothers me that unlike my old bushmaster, this rifle does not say 5.56 on the barrel. It’s also confusing why they would use this so-called “full size m16 bolt” in a rifle that was not designed for 5.56 ammo. Does anyone know if the Stainless 16” Bull Barrel sold on the DPMS Sweet 16 is a true 5.56 barrel? Again, I know it will probably work with 5.56 rounds and that is not my point. My Bushmaster said 5.56 on the barrel and my new DPMS does not. Someone on another forum said that this is because DPMS did not want to confuse the civilian market and like all the other DPMS barrels [that are true 5.56 barrels] the Sweet 16 barrel was designed for 5.56 or .223 rounds. Is there any truth to this or is this barrel really a true .223 barrel?

    Lastly, I have my heart set on some Troy flip up sights. They say they are designed for a same plane flattop. The flat top on my receiver is a little under 1 / 4 of an inch HIGHER than the top gas block rail. Does this mean that if I want to use the Troy Flip up BUIS I would have to replace the free floating tube with a free floating quad rail or change out the gas block with one with a slightly higher rail? Why the hell would they make that gas block rail slightly lower than the receiver rail!

    If the Troy’s will not work with my current stock setup, can someone suggest other BUIS that are the same quality as Troy, but will work with the slightly lower front plane? I really want to use a Troy rear Flip iron [The Diamond Head one that is not out yet, but soon] and would be ok if I was forced to use something else in the front as long as it locked in place both in the lowered and raised position. Lastly, the DPMS Front Flip “Mangonel” iron sight IS NOT an option, as IMO it’s a POS!

    Lastly, what do we think about the DPMS Titanium Bolt Assembly? How about the Chrome One? Some people have posted elsewhere that the Ti bolt may be a bad idea as it may be harder but is therefore more brittle. Is the Chrome then the best of both worlds? I want a bolt that will match the weather resistance of the SS barrel.

    Thanks in advance for the information.
    Jonathan
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  2. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    2,388
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    If it's chambered for .223, do not run 5.56mm through it. It may fire once without a problem. It may fire 100 times without a problem. Eventually you will feel pain. The DPMS website states ".223 Remington" for this model, so I would call them to clarify further if necessary.

    By "full size M16 bolt", I think they just mean it's the "full circle" carrier with no cut-out. Both the full circle and semi circle carriers should run fine in the rifle.

    Midwest Industries makes flip-up BUIS for mounting on the rail block. I think this may fit your gas block, but contact the vendor to verify:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=177563
     
  3. proven

    proven Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    771
    Location:
    VT
    i have always been under the impression that stainless bbls are for accuracy, not weather resistance. do you plan on neglecting the cleaning and maintenance of the rifle that you are looking for more weather resistance? standard bolts and bbls have been used in some of the worst weather conditions in the world and with proper cleaning and maintenance, have held up just fine.

    i agree with beren. if the rifle is not chambered for 5.56, i wouldn't even think about using it with anything other than commercial .223.

    the m16 bolt will allow you parts compatability with an of the standard ar bolt parts. the m16 bolt has the firing pin shrouded so that the bolt cocks the hammer and not the firing pin. and also lacks the cutout in the rear that the ar15 bolt has, therefor weighs more. all parts are compatible between the two.

    maybe it would help if you posted your intentions for this rifle.
     
  4. Thalinor

    Thalinor Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  5. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    2,388
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I place more faith in what the manufacturer says than what an internet website tells you. Naturally, that includes this internet website. :D

    DPMS's website lists products segregated between .223 Remington and 5.56mm. The "Sweet 16" is listed under the .223 Remington section. Call DPMS and ask. Your face is worth a phone call, right?

    The standard bolt carrier can get rained and snowed on, just clean it afterwards.
     
  6. stalkingbear

    stalkingbear Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Ky
    I have the exact same rifle you have. Dpms says right in manual to use .223 ammo ONLY. To use other ammo (5.56) could void the warranty as well as eventually damage your rifle. This is because 5.56 is loaded at higher pressure than .223 and thus will create more stress on componets. Sticking with commerical .223 ammo will be just using common sense. All dpms bolts are compatible with any other standard m16 or ar15 bolts. I don't have any sights at all on my rifle except for the scope,which is mounted as low as possible without objective bell of scope touching the freefloat handguard. If you havn't done so (trigger work),I completely reccomend the jard adjustable single stage drop in trigger unit. let's see:scrutiny:what have I missed?
     
  7. Evenflo76

    Evenflo76 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Messages:
    434
    I would verify that with the manufacturer. My factory DPMS is marked 5.56 on the barrel, and listed 5.56 on their website.

    Looking in the column on the left side of DPMS' website should clearly spell out that this rifle is barreled only for .223 Remington cartridges.
     
  8. proven

    proven Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    771
    Location:
    VT
    i called dpms.

    first let me say that he confirmed the rifle is designed to shoot .223. the rest of what the guy at dpms told me i'm not even going to repeat, because it made no sense and flies in the face of what everyone else has been saying for some time.

    here's what hornady says.

    http://www.hornadyle.com/faq/index.php?qIdx=3

    if you really want to know what dpms says, call them. i'm not sure if what the guy told me was their standard response, or just one of their techs opinions.

    personally i've seen plenty of well documented info from reputable people and mfrs, that i would NEVER use 5.56 in a bbl marked .223.
     
  9. Thalinor

    Thalinor Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Called DPMS, talked to two people, one in CS the other in support. I aslo sent them an email. All three people (who were different) game me the same round about answer below.

    For those of you who think your barrel will explode, I asked DPMS stating a few people on the net were saying the higher pressure of some XM rounds will cause problems. One guy at DPMS just said "no, they are wrong" and the other guy laughed at me and said "people on the internet do not know what they are talking about, don't take a word they say as truth."

    Anyway, I guess thats it...

    I have no plans on putting 5.56 through this gun unless the SHTF and its what I have in front of me at the time. If that is the case, excessive throat and bore erosion will be the last thing on my mind.

    Thanks for the help people!




    RE: Panther Bull Sweet Sixteen (Model: RFA2-B16)Monday, December 15, 2008 1:53 PM
    From: "DPMS Firearms" <[email protected]>Add sender to Contacts To: "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    I am glad to set the record straight. The barrels that are stamped .223 are exactly that, and officially 5.56 will fire through it. However you will see excessive throat and bore erosion. So eventually you will turn your .223 into a 5.56 anyway. We suggest that if you have a .223 that you only shoot .223 Rem ammo. If there are any further concerns please feel free to contact me.

    Respectfully,



    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    DPMS Sales

    www.dpmsinc.com

    (800) XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    (320) XXXXXXXXXX Fax



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:10 PM
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Panther Bull Sweet Sixteen (Model: RFA2-B16)

    Greetings,

    I just picked up a new Panther Bull Sweet Sixteen (Model: RFA2-B16) from my local gun shop. At the time I traded in my Bushmaster and told the dealer that I was looking for an AR-Style flat top, with a free floating foregrip, that was chambered in 5.56 NATO. He handed me the DPMS RFA2-B16 and said it had everything I was looking for listed above. I get the rifle home and notice that the barrel is marked .223 not 5.56 NATO.

    I searched online and found many of these being sold as 5.56/.223, even though the barrel is not marked as such. On one forum it was posted that the guy called the his FFL to inquire. He stated his FFL called DPMS and was told the barrel would handle 5.56 no problem. Another website stated: DPMS marks their barrels ".223", though they actually have 5.56 chambers.

    The internet is full of people who BS and I do not have any faith in FFL's telling the truth anymore which is why I am sending this email.

    I plan on using .223 most of the time in this rifle but have about 500 rounds of 5.56 NATO sitting at home for those worst case scenarios. Will the 5.56 NATO work in this Stainless Bull Barrel?

    Thank you for your time.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
     
  10. proven

    proven Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    771
    Location:
    VT
    bushmaster
    http://www.bushmaster.com/faqs/afmviewfaq.aspx?faqid=62

    midway-
    wikipedia-
    winchester-
    http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/news/newsview.aspx?storyid=11

    how many more do you want?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice