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Dragunov Tigr questions

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Coronach, Jul 22, 2007.

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  1. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    The same guy that is selling the Polytech M14S is also, apparently, selling a "Dragunov Tiger with scope". He wants $2,000.

    :scrutiny:

    I know less than nothing about the Dragunov series, so...

    1. How can you identify the different variations?

    2. What are the different variations worth?

    3. What should one look for?

    He has specifically adverised it as Russian, so I'm just going to assume it's not a Romak. I dunno if it is a KBI gun or what, and I totally can't afford it at the moment, anyway. I'm gonna go look at it, and if it looks good and all, I might see if I can wheedle some sort of private party layaway. Or maybe not.

    I dunno.

    Thoughts?

    Mike
     
  2. Hoppy590

    Hoppy590 Member

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    ok. i am no expert and everything iv learned iv learned from here

    www.dragunov.net

    basicly you want to ensure its a dragunov/tigr and not an Romak. a romak is an enlarged AK and a dragunov/tigre is differnat. romaks have stamped recievers for one
     
  3. TheDisturbed1

    TheDisturbed1 Member

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    Tigr, NDM-86, and SVD carry identical features. Romak III and PSL (which look the same) have different handguards, stock, mags, bolt carrier, and the reciever cover is different too.

    Tigr rec. cover has a curve downwards towards the front of the ejection port. RIII and PSL dont. not to mention, i think that the Tigr is much longer and 2k is a whopping deal these days. somy crazy folks sell em for 8k.

    Tigr's are best, but PSL's arent too bad. not worth 2k tho
     
  4. Ash

    Ash Member

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    The Tigr is shorter than the Romak. Basically, the Tigr series of SVD's come with sporter-style furnature and a shortened barrel. Magazines and scopes are military, as are the receiver, fire control group etc. But, the barrel is not SVD length. It is shorter. Also, it may or may not have a brake but probably not a flash-hider. It will be marked Tigr or some such on the receiver, of course.

    They are sporter versions of the real deal SVD made at the real deal Russian factory (Izhmash).

    I suppose the analogy could be the Tigr is to the SVD that a Remington BDL is to the M24, except you cannot get a correct SVD barrel for the Tigr.

    Ash
     
  5. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    So, assuming this is a Tigr/NMD/SVD and not a PSL/Romak, $2k is a good deal?

    I was really afraid you would say that. Why can't good deals come at reasonable intervals? :uhoh:

    OK. Let's look at it this way...collector/Iwannacoolgunitis/neato-toy factor aside, are these guns worth the money, purely from a shooter perspective? I mean, $2k will put you a a long ways towards a quality rifle and some really good glass...

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  6. trueblue1776

    trueblue1776 Member

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    I would buy it and flip it for $4K, if it's real.
     
  7. slzy

    slzy Member

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    svd has iron sights out to 1200 meters,tigr just to 300. i think tigr has same length barrel as svds.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2007
  8. Ash

    Ash Member

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    Personally, for the money they are not worth it as shooters. Sure, they can shoot well, very well in some cases, but for $2,000 you can buy or build something that will be much, much more accurate.

    Ash
     
  9. slzy

    slzy Member

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    from a shooter stand point no. M1a or something i would think.
     
  10. slzy

    slzy Member

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    i certainly do not want to start a "scout rifle" thread,but if the tigr were much less expensive,say $700 tops,it would come close to a semi-auto scout.
     
  11. Hoppy590

    Hoppy590 Member

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    when its already a SDM rifle. why butcher it to become a "scout rifle"
     
  12. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    I think he's saying that in its current configuration it would be a fine quasi-scout. Which, basically, is kinda what a SDM/DMR is, so that makes sense. Sure, it might not fit Cooper's strict criteria, but that basic idea is somehat similar. He seemed to be objecting to the price, which...well...have you priced a Steyr Scout lately, with glass? Not too far off, really.

    Still dunno if I'm gonna get this. I'm going to go look at it tomorrow.

    Mike
     
  13. kBob

    kBob Member

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    For those with bulging libraries:

    There is a Review of the Bear 9.3 x54R version of this rifle in the 1971 Guns& Ammo Annual. Shooting impressions sections starts on page 310 and the review is not much further into the section.

    During the early 1970's in US Army Europe I suggest that purchasing the Tigr and using Smiths Pictures from his Small arms of the world to make up new stocks and parts might give one an SVD good enough for training purposes and perhaps evaluation as SVDs did not seem to be commercially available at the time. ( my understandng is that the USAmry and USMC had but three until Eygpt came over from the dark side and then had a boat load. I saw my first at Ft. Bragg in 1980) The Tigrs and Bears were available in Switzerland and I imagine they could have been had in West Germany then as well. I did not buy one myself because No Soviet or Warsaw Pact made firearm was importable by a returning servieman at the time. I sincerly wanted one of the little Margolin .22LR pistols that at the timecame with two extra mags a wooden range box, weights and adjstable grips for near nothing and considered buying one and trying to sell it when I got short. The same thing happened when the Rod & Gun Club at Graf had the CZ52 available in 1975 (and with a lovely deep blue commercial finish like the early CZ75s and in 9x19mm and so marked at that) but sold them with the warning that they could not be imported.

    I often wondered if our LT that purchased a Starlite (Star BM) with its Beta Light equiped sights had any dificulty importing his radio active gun. The gun had a front sight dot and a single dot on the rear below the notch. One made a colon : on the target in low light and fired. It worked well. I actualyliked it better than the later three dot systems.

    But I drift.

    I have often wondered just how available the Tigr and Bear were to Soviet and WP citizens in 1971.

    -Bob Hollingsworth
     
  14. buck00

    buck00 Member

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    Coronach, I've been in your shoes. I had the Dragunov bug really bad before. I would say the Tigr isn't worth the $2,000 you have to spend (unless you are well off). For $2,000 (or less) you could buy a much nicer (and newer) rifle.

    You end up paying $2,000 for a Russian Tigr or $3,500 for an NDM-86 mainly for the "cool factor" and simply because of the supply/demand market conditions. I would argue a Tigr or NDM-86 simply isn't worth paying that much for it. You could buy several rifles and ammo for the same price.

    But then again- not many people own them and its not like the price will be dropping ever. Good luck.
     
  15. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Well, I saw it. I'm moderately underwhelmed. It feels exactly like a stretched AK, which it kindasorta is (yesssss, yesssss, I know, different action). It balanced well (being a carbine version, I imagine the real deal SVD might be more nose-heavy with the extra 4" of bbl). It had black plastic furniture on the foreend and a ugly synthetic sporter stock with rubber buttpad. As light as it is (startlingly light), I can only imagine that the recoil pad would be a Godsend when it launches its 10 rounds of 7.62x54R downrange. Kills on one end, maims on the other (not, actually, unlike my chili. But I digress).

    The receiver was marked TIGER and IZHMASH and Imported by B-West (I'm paraphrasing). So, it's not a Romak/PSL. The scope is one of the many Russian oddball scopes with the siderail mount. The reticle was...byzantine. I'm not sure which it is, but I can probably find out by looking online. The optics were bright and crystal clear. The Russians might make bizarre engineering choices, but they use good glass.

    $2000. Hmm.

    If it's still there when I have $2k sitting around idle, I will probably pick it up. If it's gone, I won't cry.

    Mike
     
  16. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Here's a question:

    I know that you can get furniture to turn the Tigr into a quasi-SVD. Anyone know where one could get that, and how much?

    The other major difference seems to be the barrel. IF I eventually buy this (and that's a very very big "if"), I would absolutely want to get the look of the real-deal SVD. I mean, let's face it- the cool points are the only reason to own this. Are there any barrels out there of the appropriate length?

    Mike
     
  17. slzy

    slzy Member

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    yeah,i meant quasi scout as it sits,meets many of the Colonels requirements.

    i got a wooden stock and plastic handguards from numrich many years ago.
     
  18. Ash

    Ash Member

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    The real deal furnature is available but will run about $500 for all stuff.

    Ash
     
  19. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Furniture and barrel, or just furniture?

    That's a lot of scratch for some window-dressing, if the latter.

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  20. cvb

    cvb Member

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    tigr

    see if hell come down a little- a year ago
    i had the chance to get one at 1k. too bad
    didnt have the money-more like gun vs pregnant wife.
    good luck, looks like youre buying.
     
  21. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    He won't come down- already tried. Now I'm trying Phase Two. Give it a few weeks, and come back around. If the gun is gone, temptation is gone- problem solved. If it's not, maybe it will drop a little.

    Who knows. I'm not jonesing after this one, after holding it. I was more psyched before I saw it than after, which is a good sign for not succumbing to the Iwannacoolgun Virus.

    Mike
     
  22. Logan5

    Logan5 Member

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    It's a very cool rifle, but there is an apples and oranges comparison here. It's not going to hold it's own against, say, your grandpa's Winchester 54 with a Lyman aperture rear sight at 100 yards, even though the optic is there, because the readily available 7.62x54R ammunition in the proper projectile weight isn't. It's not a "precision rifle", it's a "reasonably precise rifle", if that makes any sense.
    For $2000, it's pretty hot as a forbidden cold war relic, and supplies are very limited. There is a fair amount of arcana to be mastered in terms of care & feeding, optimal bullet weight, optic selection, sling use, etc.

    http://www.dragunov.net/tiger.html

    It's not a CAI though, so the rifle has that going for it.
     
  23. BigG

    BigG Member

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    The Ishmash Dragunov Tigr with import marks by B-West is the real deal. I have one. I got an extra stock and added a couple inches length of pull, painted flat black and also have the old stock. It has the PS-1 scope with rangefinder.

    They shoot easier than you would think. About like a 308 M1A. Much cooler than an M1A on the firing line and the scope is a really nice piece of work.
     
  24. max popenker

    max popenker Member

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    That's a lot. From a quick online search thru Russian websites i found that someone sells new wooden SVD-style butt and forend for Tigr for roughly $160.

    Current going prices for a NIB Tigr here (in Russia ;)) are about $1200-1500, depending on version.
     
  25. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Max-

    Do you know, can one obtain full-length SVD barrels anywhere? And how hard of a job would that be for a gunsmith the swap onto a Tigr?

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
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