Dream double rifle cartridge

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by troy fairweather, May 5, 2020.

  1. Offfhand

    Offfhand Member

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    It had been built as an after hours community project by some of the artisans working for Galazan. The problem was that they couldn't reach agreement among themselves on a price. I had just collected a couple of pretty nice guns they had made for me so I wasn't in the mood for more conversation and my checkbook was gasping anyway, so I let it drop. Here are more pics of the detailing.. DSC01054.JPG DSC01075.JPG DSC01077.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  2. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    Way too high pressure in either round for a double. If you wanted to drop down to .500 S&W ballistics in a double rifle simply use the 75 percent rule that works in all doubles. Shoot a bullet that weighs 75 percent the weight of its regulation load at the same velocity and it’ll shoot darn close to regulation.

    As an example the .500 NE is regulated for a 570 gr bullet at 2150 FPS. Give or take...

    So if you use a 425 gr .510 pistol bullet at 2150 FPS it’ll shoot to regulation. And in most cases a load of 75% of your full power load with the lighter bullet will be just about the right velocity. Doubles are finicky animals but if you want to play with one for “cheap” (er) this is one of the ways to do it. Having a custom built pistol caliber double might be a nice a project but it’s going to break the bank and you’ll wind up with a less capable and unreliable rifle in the end.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
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  3. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    I own two doubles, a Searcy PH with upgrades in .470NE and a Chapuis UGEX in 9.3x74. The .470 is a good all purpose double round, but there is a drastic difference on heavy big game between a .470NE and a .500NE. The .500NE is a true stopping round and if I was a professional hunter who hunted in the thick brush and Jesse bush in an area that was heavily populated by elephant a .500 NE is what I’d carry. A .500 knocks the stuffing out of elephants on frontal brain shots that miss the brain. There is a HUGE difference in reaction between it and similar shot placement with a .470 NE.

    IMHO based on what I’ve seen the .500 NE is the perfect balance of power and stopping ability and ease of carry in the field. Anything bigger gets to be heavy and recoil becomes an issue. So my two dream rounds in a double are either a 9.3x74R or a .375 Nitro Flanged Magnum and a .500 NE. With the edge going to the 9.3 simply because it’s WAY more affordable to buy and to shoot for just about identical performance on game.

    As far as shooting longer ranges my 9.3 is a no kidding 300 yard game rifle. However past 250 yards or so you’ve got to hold windage for crossover. With a scope the little bugger shoots my regulation load of 286 Gr Nosler Partitions into a nice 3” group for 4 rounds, two from each barrel.

    When you start getting good with a double they become a very instinctive rifle to shoot, more like a good shotgun than a rifle. And a practiced shooter can get off 4 shots with a double as fast as guy with a bolt gun. But doubles are a shooting discipline unto themselves and it takes a lot of training and dedication and expense to become proficient with one.
     
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  4. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

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    @H&Hhunter has my dream double in that 9.3x74R. Had I the money it would be mine. I have no need or use for a double, but I have a strong want. And that is one sweet shooting little rifle.
     
  5. Mosin77

    Mosin77 Member

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    If we stick to the real purpose of a double, stopping dangerous game, but balanced with a touch of practicality and African romance, .375 H&H would be neat. For the US. Not that one is apt to get charged much here, but that round would do the trick. I’d want something bigger in Africa.

    I’d also be partial to one in .577 Express (black powder.)

    To use in the states for deer hunting? 7x57 Mauser (aka .275 Rigby) would do nicely.
     
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  6. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    Here’s your huckleberry for a double. https://www.rccbrass.com/product/275-hh-flanged/
     
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  7. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    out of curiosity, about how fast would you say that is?
     
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  8. earplug

    earplug Member

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    30/40 Krag or 303 Enfield or 7.62x54 Rimmed would take care of 90% of our needs.
     
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  9. swg1

    swg1 Member

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    577 Snider, 577 2.5 BPE, 45/70, 9.3x74R, 8x57jrs, 303 Brit.

    Almost forgot, twelve bore.
     
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  10. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    I’m not much of a SxS fan, as they seem to punch me in the schnoz with every shot I fire through one.

    I was in love with the Browning Superposed .270 rifles of the 1980’s, they just oozed class.

    47471025-F387-44B9-99DE-B100031BD3B5.jpeg 4733D1EF-9E5F-4497-A309-37FAB01B36BB.jpeg

    I also saw a custom Jaeger-made Ruger Red Label O/U with .375 H&H and 20 Ga barrels at a gun shop a few miles down the road from home. It’s gone now, but it was always going to be my “Lottery Winner” rifle set.

    B6EE2FE8-26B8-4633-A947-6215D7B4E67B.jpeg C8948CEB-3300-47E6-94B0-05E8D1ECCD67.jpeg

    Stay safe.
     
  11. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    I’m thinking that a good shooter can do it in about 4 to 5 seconds. I seem to remember when I was shooting big bore double competition on a shot timer that was a fairly fast four shot set with an ejector gun. I’m trying to find some old video to verify it though.

    Any time I’ve seen a good double rifle shooter race on four aimed shots against a good bolt rifle shooter, it’s usually pretty dang close.
     
  12. Charlie Martinez

    Charlie Martinez Member

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    In Alaska a double would be a great rifle to carry for giant bear protection. I would chamber it in 375 H&H. Big enough to stop a big bear with manageable recoil.
     
  13. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    Similar ballistics but rimmed case for more reliable extraction, 9.3x74R. Or a .375 Flanged Magnum.
     
  14. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Everybody says the 9.3x74R is comparable to .375 H&H.
    From here it looks more like a .35 Whelen.
    If you want German Power, you need 9.3x64 Brenneke. Oops, rimless.

    .375 H&H Flanged Magnum is loaded a bit lighter than belted, but still more than 9.3x74R.

    What have you seen with patent rimless extractors?
     
  15. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    I’ve never personally seen a rimless round hop the extractor. But several double gun smiths I know say it’s not uncommon.
     
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  16. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    So just for comparison sake my 9.3x74R is regulated with a 286gr slug at 2350 FPS producing 3500 Ft Lbs

    A .375 Flanged Magnum shoots a 9.5 MM (.375=9.5 MM) 300 Gr slug at 2400 to 2450 producing roughly 3800 Ft lbs

    A .375 H&H belted magnum shoots a 300 Gr slug at 2450 to 2500 for just at 4,000 Ft lbs energy.

    Both the .375 and the 9.3 have an S.D of over 300 and are known for deep straight line penetration. But the main reason I like the 9.3 better than the .375 Flanged Mag in a double rifle is that you can buy a nice functional 9.3 for about half the cost of a .375 FM. So there’s that!;)
     
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  17. Archie

    Archie Member

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    Having digested several stories of African hunters and double rifles, I tend to lean toward the traditional. Flanged cartridges with large bullets.

    I cannot really afford a bespoke double rifle. However, dreaming is a bit less expensive. (Dreaming about exotic rifles or red headed women can become VERY expensive.) A double rifle should be chambered in .450 Nitro Express or .375 Holland and Holland (flanged) or perhaps a .375 Ruger (flanged, which to my knowledge doesn't exist - yet).
     
  18. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Lol, I got the redhead, and it cost me the double rifle, no regrets. :D
     
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  19. DustyGmt

    DustyGmt Member

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    I just asked my wife if she wanted to see a $200K rifle and showed her the "H&H Royal De Luxe .500/.465 and she said "it's not that much nicer than your browning". Lol.

    I knew the double rifles were expensive but 200K, wow.
     
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  20. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    It’s all in the name, a Rolls Royce isn’t that much nicer than good American luxury car. You can spend a lot more on an H&H or a lot less. But they ain’t going to be “cheap” no matter what.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
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  21. George P

    George P member

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    And H&H aren't the most expensive ones; look at the small Austrian shops like Hofer and Ollendorf; some of their creations are mid to high 6 figures.
     
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  22. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    wow, that's smokin!

    so you're saying something like a half second split time and a 2-3 second reload, followed by half second split time?
    compared to a repeater with 4 rounds in the mag doing 1 second split times?

    that's very fast. I can pretty consistently keep 2 second split times from prone on a 2 MOA target. (say, 6" plate rack at 300 yards) but I've never tried standing and shooting a bigger closer target faster. I doubt I could get any where close to 1 second splits standing. from prone, i'm not losing my sight picture and recoil doesn't move me more than 1-1.5 mil off target, so aiming isn't taking much time. i couldn't do that standing cause my wobble would be more than that.
     
  23. Archie

    Archie Member

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    Off the direct subject, but responsive to your comment: I drive a 2011 Ford Mustang. I bought it new and I like it. It cost - more or less - $25,000. At the same time, a Ferrari would have run me - more or less - $250,000. No doubt the Ferrari would be a better built car. Would it be ten times better? Probably not. For my use? Unquestionably not.
    I recommend applying the same argument to just about everything.
     
  24. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator Staff Member

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    All of the double gun shooting is from off hand with no rest. But I’m thinking I might be over stating a bit on the speed.
     
  25. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    sometimes it's not just the name. in the case of suits, quality of the fabric will cause a suit to vary from $100 to $3500 or so. However, from $3000 to $10000, the differences are labor intensive things like hand stitching. hand stitching is NOT better than machine stitching, but some people like it and appreciate the craftsmanship and uniqueness.

    is a wilson combat supergrade better than their regular line? maybe, maybe not, but it does take time for one dude to hand fit everything.

    can dudes at ferrari hand build everything better than robots at ford? i kinda doubt it. but it unquestionably takes more labor to build.

    makes me wonder if H&H you're paying for many hours of expensive hand fitting and a bunch of fancy scroll work and engraving. i'm sure the craftsmanship is worth it to some. it's definitely cool. but would it be more accurate and durable and reliable than a $20k double?
     
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