drop-leg carrier question

[old lady new shooter]

Can anybody here tell me roughly what percentage of the weight of the gun is offloaded from the waist area to the leg when using a drop-leg carrier like this one:

 

[Jenrick]

Not much at all if you wear it correctly. The goal of a drop leg is to get the gun below the waist line due to a conflict with other gear carried there, not to put the weight on the leg. If you put the weight on the leg, running with it suddenly becomes much more difficult, and the tightness of the straps to get it to stay in place cause you to fatigue quickly when running. If you run the straps comfortably tight, I'd say you'd get around 25% of the weight of the pistol on off the belt.

-Jenrick

 

[Partizanai]

Weight reduction is not the goal here...

It's about putting the weapon into a normal and comfortable draw
position. This is a natural tactical position that is far superior to most
others available.
P

 

[Sam1911]

It's about putting the weapon into a normal and comfortable draw
position. This is a natural tactical position that is far superior to most
others available.

I'd agree if we were talking about "Drop-And-Offset" belt holsters, but I've never seen a drop-leg rig that was anything as close as easy to draw from as most normal belt holsters. The only thing "far superior" about it is how much like a tactical bad-motorscooter you think you look like when you step out on the range wearing it.

Jenrick's reason is the actual purpose behind the idea. If you've got a war belt (load-bearing equipment belt system) and/or LBE vest full of infantry gear, it can be quite hard to locate a pistol on your belt, or to access it with all that stuff in the way. So holsters like this provide one answer for the soldier (or "tactical operator") to carry a secondary weapon still on his strong side, and only slightly out of the best possible position.

Unfortunately they aren't terribly comfortable and tend to be pretty unstable, which is to say getting the straps tight enough to hold it still is too darned tight for comfort, but normal strap tightness leaves that heavy hunk of metal and polymer slapping and banging around if you have to move very fast.

They are very good at helping to identify the folks at the range who you should probably keep a very close eye on ... from far away at the other end of the firing line.

 

[old lady new shooter]

<sigh>

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

I guess I need to start from the beginning:

I would like to take a class. CFS is giving one here the end of the month (which I might or might not be ready for by then) or Grant Cunningham is giving one in Phoenix at the beginning of December. Either way students are supposed to wear a holster. Besides the "normal" holster location looking like it would be very awkward for me to work from given that I am shortwaisted, I have a very bad lower back and I think having 2½ extra pounds on one side of my waist all day (especially the right side) would not only probably cause pain within half an hour max, it might set up a whole new multi-month case of "my back is out". I thought having the gun on the outside of my thigh would be way easier to reach and draw (as Partizanai said) and put the weight on the leg instead of the back.

Which is why I started the thread with that as a foregone conclusion. All this gun stuff would be a lot easier if a person could go into a brick-and-mortar store and TRY OUT whatever s/he's thinking of buying. :banghead:

Jenrick: 25% would be better than nothing! Next question is really weird but I'll ask anyway, is there any way to get the weight that stays on the waist evenly distributed?

Sam, a few questions:
1. Do you think a thigh rig might just be hard for YOU to draw from, i.e. could the experience of someone with a differently-shaped body be different?
2. I looked up drop-and-offset holsters, at least from the reachability POV they do look easier than the standard placement, but they all seem to be made for semi-automatics. Is there such a thing for a 4" 686?
3. Supposing your answer to #1 is no and #2 is yes, that still leaves open the question about all that weight on my right hip. Any ideas? (I think shoulder holster won't work, I have a very female-shaped chest, the only way I could reach the gun would be if it were snuggled into my armpit, which I think would be extremely uncomfortable.)

Everybody: Never mind running, I can't really do what you would call running.

 

[JTQ]

There is no getting around simply trying out different holsters since we're all different and what I like you may not like. You are right about not being available from a brick and mortar store, as you are unlikely to find very good holsters at the local gun store or big box store. Even if they were available, wearing it for 5 minutes in the store wouldn't tell you much. Most of us buy our holster from on-line retailers. Get a lot of recommendations, and if you buy a highly regarded holster, your chances are good you'll get a good product. It still won't guarantee it will be something that'll work for you.

2. I looked up drop-and-offset holsters, at least from the reachability POV they do look easier than the standard placement, but they all seem to be made for semi-automatics. Is there such a thing for a 4" 686?

I borrowed this from a reply I gave you in another thread a couple of weeks back…

The Cornered Cat, Straight Talk About Curves http://www.corneredcat.com/article/p...-about-curves/

If it doesn't have to be a concealment holster, and you may be interested in a dropped and offset holster as discussed in the above article…

Blade-Tech offers a dropped and offset holster for your 4" 686 http://shop.blade-tech.com/index.php...3#.Vd36BUuvvHg

Garrett Industries also offers one for your 686 http://www.giholsters.com/silent-thunder-owb/

Ready Tactical is another option http://cpwsa.com/collections/holsters/products/ready-tactical-s-w-revolver-holster

3. Supposing your answer to #1 is no and #2 is yes, that still leaves open the question about all that weight on my right hip. Any ideas? (I think shoulder holster won't work, I have a very female-shaped chest, the only way I could reach the gun would be if it were snuggled into my armpit, which I think would be extremely uncomfortable.)

A good belt will distribute the weight.

Make sure you get a good belt. It's usually more important to carrying a gun, especially a big one like a 686, than a holster. An excellent option for an economical belt is The Wilderness Tactical's 5-stitch Frequent Flyer belt.

Wilderness Tactical Frequent Flyer Belt (it's currently on sale) http://www.thewilderness.com/tactica...nt-flyer-belt/

 

[JTQ]

Here's a chart showing what the top shooters were using back in 2011 for IDPA. It'll give you an idea who makes quality gear.

http://www.idpa.com/blog/?tag=/Uncle+Mikes

 

[Sam1911]

Sam, a few questions:
1. Do you think a thigh rig might just be hard for YOU to draw from, i.e. could the experience of someone with a differently-shaped body be different?

Well, there are people with bodies shaped far away from the average form who may actually be able to draw more easily from a drop-leg rig. Just as there are people with bodies shaped far enough away from the norm that they are more comfortable with a pair of shoes that have a high platform sole on one but not the other. Not many folks would want that at all, but for a very few folks, that's the best solution.

But the drop-leg design isn't very stable, tends to twist around on your leg, and adds a whole lot of bulk and complexity to your gear with literally the only upside being that it rides low. And being that much lower, it puts the gun down out of your cover garment, so concealability is about nil.

It is not too far off from wearing an orthopedic brace on your leg, with the straps and buckles and tightness and clothes bunching under it, and shifting, and... well, you get the idea.

A lot of women do find that they have a bit more difficulty finding a comfortable holster than does the average man. In the competition world, some disciplines allow the ladies to use Drop and Offset holsters which shift the gun down and away from the curves of their hips, even if the men aren't allowed to use that gear.

2. I looked up drop-and-offset holsters, at least from the reachability POV they do look easier than the standard placement, but they all seem to be made for semi-automatics. Is there such a thing for a 4" 686?

Yes, indeed! BladeTech will make them for just that gun: http://shop.blade-tech.com/index.php?cPath=1_23_24&osCsid=81toir53kildsmb8oepe87fog6#.Ve2ZoRFVhBc

3. Supposing your answer to #1 is no and #2 is yes, that still leaves open the question about all that weight on my right hip. Any ideas? (I think shoulder holster won't work, I have a very female-shaped chest, the only way I could reach the gun would be if it were snuggled into my armpit, which I think would be extremely uncomfortable.)

Yeah: A high-quality gun belt, as wide as you can use. (I like 1-3/4" width belts but you can get good ones as slim as 1-1/4" ... just stay away from the department store belts and get one made for carrying a gun.) And carry your spare ammo on the opposite side. Balance is much more important than the actual weight.

No, I very rarely would recommend a shoulder holster for anyone, and especially not a graciously proportioned lady.

For informational purposes only: There IS the "Flash Bang" holster which is marketed to ladies...almost?...exclusively. http://thewellarmedwoman.com/flashbang-holster
But I don't want to speculate on the architecture required to successfully conceal a 686 there!

 

[JTQ]

For informational purposes only: There IS the "Flash Bang" holster which is marketed to ladies...almost?...exclusively. http://thewellarmedwoman.com/flashbang-holster
But I don't want to speculate on the architecture required to successfully conceal a 686 there!

Not to mention how awkward that holster would be for a training class with multiple presentations.

 

[Sam1911]

Not to mention how awkward that holster would be for a training class with multiple presentations.

Well, like shoulder holsters, small-of-back holsters, ankle rigs, crossdraws, etc., you're not going to find a trainer teaching a class who'd let you attend and use a rig like that.

 

[judgedelta]

Cross draw maybe??? As an aside, most of us have a dresser drawer (or two) where we keep holsters that looked good, but just didn't quite work out as desired...

If you have a bad back, a 686 is quite a chunk to carry around for any length of time. An old lady, new shooter (your description, not mine) might consider something smaller to start with. Good luck and hang in there.

Sam posted while I was composing. The cross draw won't work for a class and probably not at most ranges.

 

[Sunray]

Those drop holsters are armoured crew/game player holsters. They really just move where the grip is in relation to your hand.
"...multi-month case of "my back is out"..." Takes a week of Bone Crusher treatments to be able to walk when mine goes. At $35 a pop, last time it went.
A really good belt can help. And, depending in the firearm, having mag pouches on the opposite side. Kind of partial to between the pants seam and right aft pocket with the belt and holster tight so the holster doesn't move.

 

[Jeff White]

A good quality wide belt that was made to be a gun belt will do a lot to distribute the weight across your hips. Don't scrimp on the accessories you need. Good equipment isn't inexpensive and you can pay a steep price in pain and frustration if you buy based solely on price.

For a nylon belt I use and recommend the Wilderness Tactical 5 stitch Instructor Belt in 1 3/4 inch width:

http://www.thewilderness.com/tactical-belts/original-instructor-belt/

If you prefer leather I would recommend any of these in the widest width:

http://www.safariland.com/belts-and-keepers/dress-sporty-belts/

As for a holster, that is going to depend on if you anticipate carrying concealed or just for the class. The holster must cover the trigger (I don't know any instructor who doesn't require this) and can retain the revolver either with tension or a retention device such as a thumb break strap.

You can find suitable holsters in leather, nylon and kydex. If you select one that doesn't have a retention device you want one that will securely hold your revolver in place. Many holsters use an adjustable tension device.

You will also want a holster that if it's nylon or leather has a stiffener in the top to keep it open so that you can re-holster with one hand. It can be difficult to re-holster with a holster that collapses on it's own weight and you have to hold open to re-holster. It should fit tightly enough on your belt that it doesn't move around.

For a strong side draw you want to select a holster that keeps the butt of your revolver about midway between your wrist and your elbow while standing with you arms straight at your side.

 

[herrwalther]

I would rank drop leg holster as the least comfortable holster type. Even less comfortable than small of back carry. As mentioned, drop leg was for carrying a firearm out of the way from a long rifle and assorted webbed gear equipment. I was issued a drop leg holster on my deployment and used it for a grand total of a week before I skipped down to the PX to dump money on a SERPA kit. Even without a high quality belt, the SERPA holster carried the weight and spare ammo better than the drop leg.

686 is a whole lot of gun to carry, even if it has a 2 or 3" barrel. It also limits your holster options the longer the barrel goes.

 

[Gator06]

Frequent reader, rare poster here -- there's a lot of wisdom in what's written above. I use a drop holster numerous times a month in relation to my job. We always joke that you can tell the amateurs by how low they have their thigh rig. They are great tools, but are terrible the lower they get. As mentioned above, the whole point in dropping a holster from the waistline is to create space to clear other equipment or body armor. Mine is dropped a few inches at most. In fact, most of these holsters come with two leg straps......most guys I know ride it high enough to negate the top strap altogether -- so it's removed and we only use the bottom one. As mentioned above, it can be comfortable to wear, but I tend to wear the leg strap fairly tight because I have other gear attached to it and it shifts otherwise. Because of all the weight I have on that side connected to my drop holster, I generally get some tugging on that side. I am on my third or fourth gun belt and think I finally found something that doesn't sag. When carrying anything there will always be a trade off......thigh rigs are no different. But if you wear it right you don't get the holster and pistol swinging back and forth. It's fairly secure and fairly comfortable, but it's not something you're going to hear someone say it was so comfortable they forgot they were wearing it. Good belts are always helpful, but in my pursuit of comfort and managing carrying a weapon wherever I go I have never found the magic belt that makes carrying a gun comfortable. Then again, more often than not I am carrying full size semi-autos that my organization has issued.

 

[VanGoghComplex]

I'm chiming in here because I'm looking for drop-leg holsters, but not for the weight or gear reasons listed.

Like OP (I assume), I find it an incredibly exaggerated, awkward task to draw my 5" 686 from a belt holster strong-side. Once the barrel is free of the thing, my elbow is nearly 180 degrees, my forearm and bicep are practically coexisting in the same physical space at the same time, the heel of my hand is jammed uncomfortably into my armpit and then -finally- I can start bringing the weapon forward.

I might just be drawing wrong, but I'm a guy with long legs, long legs, and a short trunk. The hammer of my gun rides about at my elbow on a belt holster. A drop-leg seems the only way, other than trying to do cross-draw, which as noted above, is not going to allow me to learn anything in a class.

 

[Malamute]

The hammer of my 4" N frame Smith is about at my elbow in a Threepersons type holster, but its not hard to draw for me. Much higher and it would be, as your 5" gun may be the difference.

Some older type duty holsters had a drop shank that lowered them a bit. That may be a usable option for the lady also. Most I've seen were from the uncovered trigger era, there may be some with covered triggers also.

Visual aid media,

https://www.google.com/search?q=jor...2&ved=0CB0QsARqFQoTCKP-387j5scCFYctiAodVeEOuA

 

[old lady new shooter]

responding to the new messages:

JTQ, message #6:
I did look at those links in response to your original message, in fact the photo I posted at the beginning is from one of those sites. At the time when I looked at the corneredcat article, I saw the picture she has and went "No, I don't have an hourglassy shape like that model, that must not be what I need." I didn't realize the gun would also sit at least a little lower. Meanwhile, after Sam mentioned the drop-and-offset style in this thread, I went googling and found the BladeTech site but when I tried to use its search feature I never saw any revolvers in the list. I just tried clicking the link in your new post and get a 404. The giholsters link is for a Silent Thunder OWB holster, is this the drop-and-offset style? (Because it doesn't mention that.) It also has some choices I don't know how to make because I don't know what they're talking about, "mounting option" and "locking mount". ???

JTQ, message #7:
Very interesting. So BladeTech is the most popular. Just went back to their website, tried searching under OWB holster, that list does include the 686 Plus, but again, a) it doesn't mention being drop-and-offset; and b) I don't know what to select for Attachment or Cant. (I assume Rail and Light are no?)

Sam1911, message #8:
OK, your link to BladeTech works and is the one I just asked JTQ about, you can answer too. FlashBang is a non-starter, I looked at that ages ago and thought it was very scary, it looked unstable... and sure enough, meanwhile some woman shot herself trying to adjust one.

judgedelta, message #11:
Just to clarify, this is not about carrying per se, I am in California where regular people are not granted a concealed carry license. Right now it's just about a class. IAC my choice of gun was for reliability and accuracy. For shooting the weight is fine for me, even one-handed, I'm just worried about unevenly distributed weight around my midsection because I have multiple lower back issues.

Sunray, message #12:
So the gun weighs 38.9 oz, add 7 rounds makes it roughly 42.4 oz, a little over 2½ lbs. I plan to get the 5 Star speedloader(s), their website doesn't mention how much one weighs but they are aluminum and one review I read said they weigh less than the plastic ones made by other companies. Amazon says the shipping weight of the 6-shot version is 1.1 oz, so figure a full one weighs maybe 4.6-4.7 oz, not much of an offset.

Jeff White, message #13:
If you feel like looking at the two holsters mentioned above and offering any thoughts, that would be great. The "butt of the gun midway between the wrist and elbow", that is the problem. Standing up with my arm straight my elbow is at my waist, my wrist is a tiny bit more than 2" below the top of my leg. That's why the holster-on-the-belt that seems to be the standard position looks to me like it will be hard for me to work with.

herrwalther, message #14:
I didn't know what a SERPA is, googling found some photos of people wearing the gun on the thigh but the harness or whatever you call it looks much more heavy-duty than the photo I posted at the beginning of the thread, for one thing I see TWO straps attaching it to the belt. But your message looks like SERPA is something different from a drop-leg style?

VanGoghComplex, message #16:
Yes, I have a short torso and relatively long legs, and the former is the reason I imagined a waist-level holster would be unwieldy for me. The whole time since I decided to learn to shoot I was imagining I could use the drop-leg style, I've never even gone through the motions of drawing from waist level... <timeout> OK, looking around in my kitchen I found a wire whisk that is 9½" long (4" 686 Plus is 9.56"), I just mimed drawing it, it totally doesn't work. My only hope is that how I just mimed it isn't how one is actually supposed to draw and there is some secret that makes it doable...

Malamute, message #17:
This photo at your link looks like what you're talking about, correct? What keeps the holster from flopping around?

 

[JTQ]

From Garrett Industries, here is the Dropped and Offset Mount http://www.giholsters.com/dropped-offset-mount/

If you have questions, call them at 409-454-5015. You'll most likely get either Ron Garrett or his wife Sheryl on the phone. Tell them your issue. They'll help you.

 

[JTQ]

So BladeTech is the most popular. Just went back to their website, tried searching under OWB holster, that list does include the 686 Plus, but again, a) it doesn't mention being drop-and-offset; and b) I don't know what to select for Attachment or Cant. (I assume Rail and Light are no?)

At Blade-Tech ( http://shop.blade-tech.com/index.php?cPath=1_23_24&osCsid=m4p6eog6o2vo7590aa99ifcf26#.Ve7jZEuvvHg ), select their Outside the Waistband Holster (OWB).

From the drop downs…

Manufacturer: S&W
Gun Model: select whatever model of 686 you have, since I can't remember anymore.
Attachment: D/OS Adjustable Sting Ray Loop
Rail: N/A
Light: N/A
Cant: 3 position adjustable cant
Color: Your choice
Hand: select the side you will carry the gun. Right handed or left handed.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Retention is poorer with a drop leg setup. Also, there are stories of guys running and having the drop leg swing around and hit them in the groin.

 

[Malamute]

Malamute, message #17:
This photo at your link looks like what you're talking about, correct? What keeps the holster from flopping around?

The drop shank is metal lined and very rigid. If you lost your gun, you could likely take the holster off and use it as an impact weapon.

RE Serpa's, this may attract flack, but in my recent reading, many better grade trainers, and law enforcement departments have been banning them in classes and for duty. They cite too many safety issues, and the release can jam with grit and lock the gun in place, not allowing it to be drawn.

 

[taliv]

probably not terribly helpful if you're concerned about looking a little goofy, but you might consider one of the battle belts with suspenders. the belts are heavily padded and the suspenders would put the weight on your shoulders and well distributed.

do a google image search for 'battle belt suspenders'. dunno if any of those designs work with female shaped chests, but it's worth a look.

most of the belts have molle attachments, so you'd get a holster that attaches to molle. plenty of options there.


also, don't even think about serpa holsters

 

[Jeff White]

A low mount LE duty holster would solve the problem, but I'm having trouble locating one for a revolver. Might have to look for a used one.

 

[silicosys4]

ebay is chock full of low ride issue LE holsters for dirt cheap,