Dry firing used guns at gun shows/auctions,,,

[aarondhgraham]

I read a post about an obnoxious guy at a gun auction,,,
Seems he wanted to dry fire some guns and got real pissy when told no.

Now I'm all for an obnoxious arse getting what he deserved
But these blanket "no dry firing" policies annoy/puzzle me to no end.

Now before you get the wrong idea about me,,,
I am that guy who goes to a gun show,,,
With a small pack of dummy rounds.

I carry three snap-caps for .22 LR, 25 ACP, 32, 38, 357 Mag, 44 Special, 9mm, 45 ACP, and 45 Colt.

I pick up a revolver at a gun show that interests me,,,
There is no way in heck that I'm going to buy it,,,
If the owner won't allow me to function test it.

That includes seeing if the dang thing will actually drop a hammer on a round.

Now I don't ever argue with the seller,,,
But in my best non-confrontational voice I tell them,,,
I won't even consider buying a gun that I haven't dry fired.

Even when I show them the snap-caps,,,
I've still had some sellers say no.

I can only assume they really didn't want to sell it in the first place,,,
Or they were knowingly trying to sell me a broken gun.

At a recent gun show I was attracted to a very nice 3" Model 36,,,
But the guy (per gun show rules) had the hammer zip tied.

The price was right and I had the cash in hand,,,
But he was adamant about not cutting the zip tie to let me test the gun.

He said the gun show operator wouldn't allow it,,,
So I went and found the operator who told the guy it was fine.

Even then he said he wouldn't do it because dry firing damages the gun,,,
I showed him the three .38 snap-caps I had ready for use,,,
He still refused, even after I showed him the cash.

If he wasn't trying to hide a broken gun,,,
What would have been the problem?

I just can't understand how gun show dealers,,,
Expect someone to buy a used firearm,,,
Without testing it's basic functions.

My local pawn shop has a jar of snap-caps just for that purpose,,,
Now understand he won't allow you to snap fifty pulls,,,
But he thinks it's only reasonable to allow you a few.

I am in total agreement with him.

What do you gentlemen think?

Aarond

.

 

[rbernie]

I would rather let you dry fire a gun than let you load three objects into the cylinder that you say are snap caps and then pull the trigger. Just sayin'.....

I won't buy a gun if I can't cycle the action and lockwork as part of an inspection. But evidently enough people will that some folk have no issues with keeping the zip tie in place. Then again - I have never had anyone look at me and tell me no.

 

[rule303]

As long as they ask, I have no problem letting a potential buyer dry fire a used gun with snap caps, or without on most modern designs like a Glock, etc.
The problem is that so many people will do things like take a D/A revolver, spin the cylinder and slam it shut, or fan the action on a S/A. Make it clear to the seller that you won't do those things. If he still won't let you cycle the action on a snap cap, walk away.

 

[aarondhgraham]

Hello rbernie and rule303,,,

I won't buy a gun if I can't cycle the action and lockwork as part of an inspection. But evidently enough people will that some folk have no issues with keeping the zip tie in place. Then again - I have never had anyone look at me and tell me no.

I guess that's the reason right there,,,
Enough people will buy the gun anyway so why cater to us wo won't.

I've asked the people running the last several gun shows I have attended,,,
They all have said the same thing in that it's okay to cut the zip tie to inspect a gun.

There have been problems in past years where people have loaded a live round and walked away,,,
In fact that happened at a Tulsa gun show around 2005-06,,,
Fortunately no one was hurt by that round.

I understand that's why the shows require all actions to be zip tied,,,
I do not understand when a seller uses that to refuse a function inspection.

I would rather let you dry fire a gun than let you load three objects into the cylinder that you say are snap caps and then pull the trigger. Just sayin'.....

Okay,,,
Fair enough.

Except for the .22 and 25 ACP dummy rounds,,,
The ones I have are Tipton brand with see thru plastic,,,
Anyone can see exactly what they are especially as they are labeled as such.

If that was truly a concern,,,
I would ask the seller to load them into the gun.

Aarond

.

 

[FireInCairo]

In general, I won't commit to buying a handgun unless I can dryfire it. Too many companies are putting out awful heavy triggers unnecessarily. That adds time and money to making the pistol useable.

 

[Jim K]

At most of the gun shows in this area if you try to load anything into a gun you will be escorted OUT and informed that you are NOT welcome to return.

You have basically said that you understand the restrictions, but that YOU are a special case and YOU should be allowed to disregard the rules. Most dealers will cut the tie and allow you to work the action, but won't let you load anything, no matter what you say it is, into the gun.

Jim

 

[aarondhgraham]

Hello Jim K,,,

Most dealers will cut the tie and allow you to work the action, but won't let you load anything, no matter what you say it is, into the gun.

But that's the point of this post,,,
In the past 9 years since I've been actively buying guns,,,
I have found the situation to be that most dealers will not cut the tie for an inspection.

They can load the caps into the gun for all I care,,,
I just want to be able to test the action,,,
Before the formal purchase I made.

Why should I absorb all the risk in the transaction?

I should mention one thing though,,,
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here,,,
I'm simply trying to determine if I'm alone in my thinking.

Heck my friends,,,
I know I'm an old curmudgeon,,,
I'm merely determining if I'm alone in this.

Aarond

.

 

[X-Rap]

Being on the other side of things in the past I will say it's a case by case situation. I believe there are some who go to shows with no other intent than to fondle guns they do not personally own, wish to show sellers how much they know or use your property as an instructional prop for their wife child or girlfriend. It may sound harsh but maybe 1 in 10 if your lucky even have the scratch to buy what they want to cycle, spin, dry fire, or slam and it usually happens before you can get them stopped.
I rarely do shows anymore and this is but one of the many reasons.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I can understand a dealer not giving permission for say an old C&R. Some of them have firing pin issues when dry firing. A couple CZs in this realm come to mind. For a modern production gun it's just a lame excuse saying it will damage the gun. If you can damage a new production gun by dry firing it it's not worth having in the first place. Hell, S&W tells you to dry fire their J Frame revolvers hundreds of times to help smooth out the trigger. As others have said, no pull no buy.

 

[X-Rap]

And I would agree with the above. My point is that one exhibitor may see many hundreds of folks who want to manipulate a specific gun and have little or no intent of buying. I think some of them just either develop a sixth sense about serious buyers or become so jaded over a weekend that they refuse everyone.
I can say that I am fairly committed and have the resources to make the deal before I ask to do more than a visual inspection.

 

[Old Fuff]

Usually when inspecting a gun I can detect the possibility (or probability) of a problem without dry firing. I can also understand that if every "looker" wants to dry fire the piece, over time the wear may show. Last or not least rules are rules. :banghead:

So if a seller refuses to let me do whatever I think is necessary, I walk...

On the other side of the table the seller has to decide how far they will go to make a sale. Sometimes whatever the gun is, is in a buyer's market, while others are in enough demand that the seller won't care if I walk or not.

For the record I'm more likely to be looking at the former then the latter.

I want to be the one who has the most leverage.

 

[WardenWolf]

One way of doing it subtly is I will work the action, but instead of just dry firing, I'll hold the cocking piece or hammer with one hand and let it down gently, making sure the seller sees I'm doing this. This still lets me test for function, but also shows respect for their gun. It makes everyone happy when you do it that way.

Obviously, this doesn't work with striker-fired pistols, but the odds of me buying one of those used is slim to none (or buying one at all, for that matter; all my pistols have hammers).

 

[Jim Watson]

I won't even consider a used gun that the gun show vendor won't untie.

I recall the pristine looking Colt Commander that caught my eye. He DID take off the tie, I looked at the feed ramp that looked like it had been attacked with a rusty rat tail file and backed away with my hand clamped over my wallet.

 

[Panzerschwein]

One way of doing it subtly is I will work the action, but instead of just dry firing, I'll hold the cocking piece or hammer with one hand and let it down gently, making sure the seller sees I'm doing this. This still lets me test for function, but also shows respect for their gun. It makes everyone happy when you do it that way.

Obviously, this doesn't work with striker-fired pistols, but the odds of me buying one of those used is slim to none (or buying one at all, for that matter; all my pistols have hammers).

I agree.

For a revolver with a hammer spur, there really is no reason to snap the gun to see if it checks out. Just hold the hammer with your weak hand thumb as you pull the trigger. You'll be able to check for smoothness, lockup, end shake, and timing. You can even peak into the frame window to see if the firing pin protrudes when the trigger is all the way to the rear. Now granted, this only works on DA/SA or SA revolver, and some SA or SA/DA handguns, but that's fine.

OP: I'm not surprised that dealers aren't keen on you putting your own snap caps in their guns. You never know these days.

 

[newfalguy101]

I am happy to cut zip ties, cycle the action all you want, HOWEVER, do NOT dry fire the gun, and NO, you are not loading anything into the cylinder or magazine.

The problem with web forums like this is that you all seem to assume that all gunshow attendees are "gun people" let me assure you that is NOT the case!!!

I have had a seemingly knowledgeable "buyer" dry fire a CZ-52, and when I winced and asked him to NOT do that again as the firing pins are known to break, he looked at me and said "one time wont hurt anything" I No longer allow dry firing, PERIOD.

I have complete AR-15 lowers on my table and everyone of them has the hammer in the fired position, why you ask?? Because sure as dirt somebody who knows everything there is to know about guns will "dryfire" the thing and when the trigger mechanisms gets damaged, use that as a reason to NOT buy the gun they broke, or worse, use THAT as a reason to knock the price down!!

If you as a buyer don't/cant understand that I am protecting MY investment, well, then sorry, but, I guess we wont be doing business...........fortunately, you are NOT the only person attending

 

[FireInCairo]

There was a local shop that had some of the best prices, but because they went to all the gun shows all of their guns had zip ties in shop.

Checking the action of a pistol is important. I've found pistols that weren't cycling properly in shops when looking to buy.

Since you couldn't check the action or dry fire these pistols I never purchased anything from them. They eventually went out of business, and I bet that policy played a part in their sales.

 

[FireInCairo]

I am happy to cut zip ties, cycle the action all you want, HOWEVER, do NOT dry fire the gun, and NO, you are not loading anything into the cylinder or magazine.

The problem with web forums like this is that you all seem to assume that all gunshow attendees are "gun people" let me assure you that is NOT the case!!!

I have had a seemingly knowledgeable "buyer" dry fire a CZ-52, and when I winced and asked him to NOT do that again as the firing pins are known to break, he looked at me and said "one time wont hurt anything" I No longer allow dry firing, PERIOD.

I have complete AR-15 lowers on my table and everyone of them has the hammer in the fired position, why you ask?? Because sure as dirt somebody who knows everything there is to know about guns will "dryfire" the thing and when the trigger mechanisms gets damaged, use that as a reason to NOT buy the gun they broke, or worse, use THAT as a reason to knock the price down!!

If you as a buyer don't/cant understand that I am protecting MY investment, well, then sorry, but, I guess we wont be doing business...........fortunately, you are NOT the only person attending

There are models that are exceptions, but a good way to handle it is to simply put a sign out for people to ask. Then load up snapcaps yourself. I bet dealers would sell a lot more guns if they simply gave that kind of customer service.

 

[newfalguy101]

There are models that are exceptions, but a good way to handle it is to simply put a sign out for people to ask. Then load up snapcaps yourself. I bet dealers would sell a lot more guns if they simply gave that kind of customer service.

Again, you are assuming people attending gunshows are "gun people" and now you are assuming people actually:

1) Pay any attention to signs on tables
and
2) Actually ASK!!!

There ARE some but the vast majority do NOT

 

[alan]

Strikes me that two things dictate asking the owner:
1. Common Sense
2. Common Courtesy.

Unfortunately, many people have more "common" than courtesy or sense.

 

[larry_minn]

When I have been in Gun shows if we hear a "CLICK" of dry fire everyone stops and looks at idiot who did it.
If you dry fire revolvers you put your finger infront of hammer.

I don't care for folks pulling trigger and letting it dry fire around me. (who I do not know)

 

[Tirod]

Attending gun shows and stores in the 70's and 80's, dry firing was a quick way to be socially ostracized. "Common knowledge" stated that the firing pins could be damaged because the primer cushioned them on ignition but dry firing was beyond their design limits. At the time most handguns were revolvers, not pistols with separate firing pins or striker fired. I think that makes a difference today as most guns don't have pins attached to hammers now.

Looking around on the net you find some who still disparage it, others who recommend it as a practice, and a middle ground who simply don't know and are waiting for the final authoritative answer. Yet when someone attempts it, fur flies. In contrast to my initial "training" by weapons experts and experienced professionals then, the last two guns I bought were dry fired by the sales person at the LGS and I was urged to do the same on the spot. Short of loading it on the scene and putting rounds into a sand bucket, how can you check it? Trigger pull on guns is highly selective to the individual and I wasn't about to spend money on one just to spend more "fixing" it.

Add to that the inappropriate negligent discharge of a gun that was supposedly unloaded - which seems to happen at gun shows with surprising frequency as it is. No doubt some show hosts do prefer a no dry firing regime.

I expect we are just going to have to get along with it being out there.

 

[TimSr]

Strikes me that two things dictate asking the owner:
1. Common Sense
2. Common Courtesy.

It should be that simple. I always ask before touching somebody else's property, whether it be a pistol or a hammer.

 

[LowspeedHidrag]

Agree with the author totally. The gun show dealer is the twin of a car salesman who only permits test drives in the parking lot.:banghead:

 

[joem1945]

If I'm buying a firearm at a show I want to inspect it as best I can. No dry firing but I want to see the inside of the barrel, cylinder, mag well, feed ramp ect. I also want to test the safeties and trigger pull by putting my finger under the hammer if possible. I don't want to get stuck with junk.

 

[AlexanderA]

If I'm buying a firearm at a show I want to inspect it as best I can. No dry firing but I want to see the inside of the barrel, cylinder, mag well, feed ramp etc. I also want to test the safeties and trigger pull by putting my finger under the hammer if possible. I don't want to get stuck with junk.

This is entirely reasonable. Insisting on dry firing is not. Dry firing can damage certain guns, and I'm OK with a blanket rule against it.

And taking snap caps to a gun show is a really bad idea. It's all too easy to mix them up with live rounds. That's how accidents happen. Nothing should go into a chamber of a gun at a gun show.