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Dual Citizenship - What rights do I sacrifice?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by MrPeter, Jun 14, 2007.

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  1. MrPeter

    MrPeter Member

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    I haven't seen this question asked yet, even after searching, so please forgive me if this has been addressed before.

    I was born in the United States after my parents came to America from Europe. They were escaping the communist regime there and decided they didn't want to start a family under their occupied home country of Czechoslovakia (at the time, now Czech Republic). When they came here, my folks had my brother and myself both before they were officially immigrated into the country. So, because I was born in America while my parents still only had Czech passports, I am eligible for dual citizenship. I have my American passport of course, and for several reasons I would like to be a citizen of the Czech Republic as well. However, the last time I bought a handgun, I noticed a box that asks if I hold citizenship in the United States exclusively (not worded that way).

    My question to THR is what if I am successful and become a dual citizen? When I write "NO" in that box, will I be denied my right to own a handgun? Will I have issues renewing my CCW permit? How are 2A rights handled for people with dual citizenship?

    I don't see any practical reason for me to lose my rights as an American Citizen, and frankly I am a little offended at that question on the form (not that I'm not offended at several of those questions.. Who cares if I'm white or black or hispanic? That shouldn't effect their decision to let me have another handgun! :mad: )
     
  2. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    How do you go about getting this?

    I didn't know I could go back and get another citizenship.

    I'm not sure about the answer to your question. I'm curious about that, too.
     
  3. STAGE 2

    STAGE 2 Member

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    If you were born here than you are a US citizen. Your status in the Czech republic depends on their laws. Some countries allow dual citizenship and some don't. If I recall my immigration law correctly (and that was a long time ago), there isn't anything in US law preventing you from having dual citizenship. When they ask you questions like "are you a US citizen" your answer is yes. Its doesnt matter if you are a citizen somewhere else as well because thats not what the question is asking. As a result I don't know why you would anser no to that question.

    Of course to get a completely correct answer its best to call an immigration attorney since that part of my file cabinet is covered in cobwebs.
     
  4. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    I am a dual citizen. I always check "Dual Citizen" on the 4473, and then write in USA and Canada. I have never been deferred or denied. (I buy lots of guns, and I even have a C&R).

    YMMV, but being a dual citizen has no downside for me. Carrying two passports, one of them from a "benign" nation, can sometimes be a benefit.
     
  5. MikeH

    MikeH Member

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    In principle, dual citizens are treated just like any other US citizen within the US territory. For example, we cannot use foreign passports to enter/leave the US. If we get into legal trouble, we cannot claim to be a foreign citizen and seek help from the embassy of our "other" country. So I don't think 2A rights should be affected either.
     
  6. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    ..tricky stuff...

    After I get my citizenship, I'll have THREE...

    US, CDN, & UK...
     
  7. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    As I understand it, the USA does not recognize dual citizenship (even though they recognize that other countries do). The USA considers you to be either a US citizen or a citizen of another country. I've known several people with dual citizenship and it has never seemed to cause them any grief here.
     
  8. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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  9. MrPeter

    MrPeter Member

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    Yes, the law is such that if you are born by people with citizenship of another country in America, you are an American Citizen by default, and if your country dictates its citizenship by default by birth, then you are born with dual citizenship.

    The Czech Rebublic doesn't make me a citizen just because I was born by two Czech passport holders, but I can apply for it, and I will likely be accepted. The Czech Republic really looks down on Dual Citizenship though. I would like it for property-owning reasons.

    So I guess that won't change my CCW status or ability to buy handguns then? Well now that is wonderful news. It concerned me that there was a question on that form that specifically asks about citizenship status.

    Now I just have to find out more about gun laws in the Czech Republic. It seems easy enough to get a "non-evil" gun, such as a bolt action or lever action rifle longer than 24", but it may be a challenge to get a handgun. It seems though like if you can get the lisence to get a handgun, then you can carry it wherever you go? Maybe I can't find laws about it CCW because the laws don't exist?
     
  10. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    My daughters are dual citizens.

    The basic legal deal is that America doesn't 'recognize' dual citizenships, and therefore from the point of view of American law, there is no additional power or impairment that comes with dual citizenship.

    The basic nature of the thing is simply that America can't do a darned thing about how another soveriegn nation defines "citizen". For example, Russia, where my daughters were born, has a "once a Russian, always a Russian" view of citizenship, and therefore insists that they are Russian Federation citizens, and there is no mechanism for severing that relationship. Fortunately, they can only enforce this when they are in RF jurisdiction. The practical aspect of this is that if they ever visit Russia, they must use their Russian passports to enter, rather than their American passports.

    The only thing to watch out for is any act that may cast your own citizenship into doubt. The courts are pretty lenient, though, it's hard (but not impossible!) to lose your American citizenship by adhesion. You must take some action that has the explicit intention of giving up your US citizenship.
     
  11. kbarrett

    kbarrett Member

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    If you run for office in a foreign country, or enlist in a foreign army, or accept a foreign title, the feds may consider that to be voluntarily revoking one's citizenship.

    If your second citizenship will draft you into the army, you might have a problem.

    Make certain that the Czech Republic won't force you into military service if you become a citizen under a certain age. Being a permanent foreign resident may be less trouble.
     
  12. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    kbarrett: Those are the "adhesion" actions I was making reference to.

    The statutes specify them as actions that may be indicative of surrendering citizenship, but it's not quite as automatic as that. Like I said, the courts generally hold that it must be your explicit intention to give up your citizenship, and the only reliable way to do it is to formally renounce in front of a consular official.

    It's sort of like getting kicked out of the Catholic Church: you have to document yourself teaching heresy, knowing it to be heresy, with malice aforesight before they'll take you off the rolls. As a result, most people don't bother, as it's a pain in the buttocks to videotape oneself preaching Sabellianism on a streetcorner just so you can mail it to the pope.

    You are correct to indicate caution if any of these things are a possibility, however, as the law is a little unpredictable here. Lawyers are needed.
     
  13. ArJuna

    ArJuna Member

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    I was in a similar situation and about 12 years ago I claimed my dual citizenship between the USA and France. I did this due to a job opportunity I had in the UK. The French passport, which is also a European Union passport allowed me to work there without any other hurdles.

    Anyway, as far as rights, I have all the rights of BOTH with no negative impact from either. I have since purchased dozens of guns, including handguns, machine guns, and suppressors. I think it slowed me up one time when I bought a rifle in PA and the state police delayed on approval.

    Go for it, it may even help you when the New World Order decides to impose martial law in the USA.
     
  14. Tim James

    Tim James Member

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    I imagine it would raise red flags for a security clearance, but may still be okay for approved countries.
     
  15. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

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    I have dual citizenship. US and Canadian.

    My family and I travel to Canada ALL THE TIME, to visit my grandparents. Never had any trouble going in and out through the boarders.

    If you want multiple citizenships and there's nothing legally that says you can't do that, then go for it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2007
  16. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Are we at war with Canada ???? :D
     
  17. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

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    It's fixed.

    Duel and Dual are words that I just don't use very often. I don't even remember using them since the start of 2007. :)
     
  18. MikeH

    MikeH Member

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  19. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    Where are all the posts talking about how we should end the anchor baby laws and all that?
     
  20. Frog48

    Frog48 Member

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    He said he's a natural-born US citizen, not naturalized, so some of those circumstances would not apply to him.
     
  21. JerryM

    JerryM Member

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    It is my view that there should not be dual citizenships.
    A person should have allegiance to only one country.

    Jerry
     
  22. xd9fan

    xd9fan Member

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    U.S. and Swiss
    that would be....sweeet
     
  23. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    Some of us didn't have a choice. I received both of my temporal citizenships at birth. Of course, my highest allegiance is to a kingdom not of this world.
     
  24. cloudcroft

    cloudcroft Member

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    There's no such thing as dual citizenship, just as there is no such thing as a hypenated American. You can't be loyal to two different countries, can't have two masters. Choose one or the other.

    If someone is confused about where his/her loyalty lies, he/she should be deported. People coming here and becoming American citizens need to forget about WTH they came from...it doesn't matter where they came from, they're supposed to Americans now. If not, they should go back. If it was so great THERE, why be HERE?

    It's that simple...always has been.

    Besides the pathetic illegal Mexican immigration issue and the change those people will have on this country, this "dual citizenship" and "hyphenated American" crap is one big reason America is losing its identity.

    Flame away...I won't be arguing with anyone here, I just want this posted as a dissenting view and for the record.

    -- John D.

    P.S. You DO have a choice: Give one of the citizenships up. Renounce it.

    But I agree that my FIRST loyalty is ALSO to a higher kingdom...AND a higher law. But down here in this temporal world, I am an American living in America...where I came from is unimportant.
     
  25. Mannix

    Mannix Member

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    It depends, since your parents are from there, it might not be a problem. The only problem that will arise is if the Czech Republic citizenship process requires to renounce your US citizenship.

    Many countries require you to do so(like Switzerland) unless you meet certain criteria. Marrying a citizen, being the child of a citizen(though sometimes you also have to be a minor), are exceptions, though there may be others(Those are just the two I remember reading about).

    I would suggest getting in contact with the Czech embassy if you want more information concerning possible renunciation.

    Though we are not in conflict with the Czech Republic at this time, and it's unlikely we will in the foreseeable future, I would suggest you really consider your reasoning. Being a citizen comes with certain responsibilities, and they should not be taken lightly.
     
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