Dud During Rapid Fire

[Fenris]

Took my Sig 226 to Silver Eagle Group today (great range), and during rapid fire drill had a misfire - dud. Even with two levels of hearing protection and other gunfire around me I heard that click that should have been a bang. Not that big a deal, dropped the magazine and cleared the chamber. The primer certainly had been struck so the gun did its job, but it was an ammunition malfunction. **** happens. I was using Winchester White Box, and had never had a problem with it before.

But afterwards, I started thinking, what if instead of a dud, it had been a squib? In rapid fire there simply isn't time to even recognize there has been a misfire. So what would happen? Does the next round push the squib out? Does my lovely 226 handgun suddenly become a 226 hand-grenade?

Thoughts?

 

[outerlimit]

I was just gonna mention "better than a squib" after reading your title. Yea, basically the gun explodes. Some guns have a pressure release, some guns you just hope don't blow up too badly and take your hands or face or whatever.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

Now how do you keep the possibility of a squib to an absolute, rock-bottom minimum?

 

[MrBorland]

It's concerned me when doing rapid fire with my revolver, but would a squibb even cycle the action of a semi-auto? Seems to me if there wasn't even enough oomph to get the bullet free of the barrel, there might not be enough to cycle the slide and chamber a fresh round.

 

[Oro]

Does the next round push the squib out? Does my lovely 226 handgun suddenly become a 226 hand-grenade?

More like the latter. It won't explode and throw fragments everywhere, but usually the barrel bulges and the two are trapped in the barrel. The barrel is ruined. This is more common in revolvers - autos often don't cycle. If the bullet just enters the barrel and doesn't leave enough space for a second behind it, it could cause the next cartridge case to rupture and some debris to fly out. Usually, it is the former situation of the barrel bulging. If you search this forum for "bulged barrel" and "squib" you can likely find some stories and photos pretty easily.

I have seen cases where the ammo manufacturer took care of the repair/replacement. No such fallback if it's reloads, of course. Stopping the firing string if ANYTHING feels amiss is a mental habit to practice - hard to do in live practice!

 

[Fenris]

Hmmm.

So there are squibs, bad squibs, and really bad squibs.

Does anyone know the statistics for squib rate in factory ammo? I know that this was a failure to discharge, but are WWB more prone to this (and or squibs) than other brands? Is there another brand of practice ammo that would be more reliable?

If I sound paranoid, it is only because there is this SOB named Murphy out to get me.

A bit on the scary side.

 

[Ken Rainey]

Notify Winchester of the situation and give them the lot number of the ammo, they might give you a new box or two for your trouble.

 

[MrBorland]

If I sound paranoid, it is only because there is this SOB named Murphy out to get me.

Murphy has a greater chance of meeting up with you if you're simply pulling the trigger as fast as possible. As Oro suggested, there's more to rapid fire than that. Done correctly, you're actually seeing a new sight picture between each shots and (quickly) making the decision to shoot again. Part of that decision would be whether it's safe to do so.

FWIW, I'm a fairly new reloader. I haven't had any trouble yet, but nonetheless, when doing rapid fire drills, I'll often use factory ammo (WWB .38 spl) and haven't had anything close to a squib. Not saying it never happens, mind you...

 

[Fenris]

Well maybe not as absolutely as fast as possible. I generally try to hit the target. Paper without holes makes me sad.

 

[jcwit]

Had this squib happen to me with reloads "my own". Action cycled and I didn't catch it in time. Result was a bulged barrel with slight cracks in it. Pistol was a Kimber .45 ACP. Nothing else was broken, bent, or damaged in any way. Fixed it with a new barrel and bushing.

Had a Guardian Angle with me that day.

 

[default]

In tens of thousands of rounds of new-manufacture centerfire ammo, I've had one dud, a round so out of spec it wouldn't chamber, a couple with visible setback that I passed on, and one squib. The squib didn't cycle my 92FS, and it tied the pistol up so that the slide couldn't be retracted. It needed to be field-stripped and the bullet tapped out of the barrel with a wooden rod. No damage, however.

My memory on the incident is a little fuzzy, but I seem to recall pulling the trigger and getting a click - I don't recall hearing the primer go off, and I think I thought I was dealing with a hangfire or a dud. I pulled the trigger several times, waited with the muzzle downrange, and then tried to eject the "dud" only to find the thing locked up in battery. My first thought was, "Stupid Beretta - broken locking block on the first magazine of the day!" Sorry, pistol - shouldn't have jumped to conclusions.

The ammo was UMC 115gr. FMJ from Dick's, and like a dummy I lost the box tab with lot number, which I had specifically made a point of taking home with me.

Another question - how dangerous is a round going off when it's completely out of the chamber? I know that tap-rack-reassess is better than DA double strike, but fear of hangfires has kept me from doing it on the rare occasions when I expect a "bang" and get a "click".

 

[MMCSRET]

A squib will most likely not cycle the slide to pick up the next round, that said you should make sure all squibs are the last round out of the magazine and only one to a magazine.

 

[S&Wfan]

I had a squib round in a .44 Mag Ruger Super Blackhawk one time, when I was new to shooting and had bought some gunshow reloads.

The squib didn't push the bullet but about half way through the barrel. Luckily, even though inexperienced, things didn't sound and feel right so I stopped shooting and pulled the cylinder.

I ended up going home and driving the round out with a wooden dowel. If I'd touched the next round off though, it would have ruined that original, 3-screw Ruger!

Stuff happens. Hopefully we'll be aware of things when they happen.

 

[Sunray]

"...Yea, basically the gun explodes..." Um, no. Like Oro says, you get a bulged barrel that causes the pistol to stop working. Doesn't always leave both bullets in the barrel though.
"...would a squibb even cycle the action of a semi-auto?..." Did with my .45 and my poorly loaded target loads. To this day I couldn't tell you exactly what I did stupidly when loading 'em. Except changing the load and not paying enough attention. Lucked out like jcwit and it only bulged the barrel. Target loads will do that.

 

[Steve C]

When any round doesn't go off properly one needs to stop shooting, keep the gun pointed down range and wait 30 seconds to a minute to make sure it isn't a hang fire. Only then should the round be cleared and the barrel checked for obstruction. Opening the chamber and having a hang fire go off in your face is bad news.

While this is fine on the target range in a SD situation it may be necessary to just jack in another round and pray there's no bullet stuck in the barrel. Duds, squibs and hang fires are very rare in factory ammo but there's a reason you pay 2 to 3 times the cost for defense grade ammo.