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Easy to shoot handguns...

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by marshall3, Jan 2, 2006.

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  1. marshall3

    marshall3 Member

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    I have decided to create a web page on my site especially for people who have weak hands and arms: the elderly, weak women (I know not all are weak!), handicapped, etc. So give me your best knowledge on this. What are some handguns that require less strength than most? Light? Easy loading. Easy trigger. Let's not worry about caliber. Thanks!
    Marshall at www.mouseguns.com
     
  2. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    I posted this thread some time back - you may find some useful information in it.
     
  3. yesterdaysyouth

    yesterdaysyouth Member

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    well revovlers would be the easiest, then the beretta tip up barreled models are easy to operate...
     
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Member

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    How about Benchrest 22 cal. rifles/pistol?

    It can be alot of fun.
     
  5. Scarface

    Scarface Member

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    Hi Marshall,

    I gave our Ruger Mark I to our son, since my wife could not rack the slide. She has no problem with our P22 and, of course, the Beretta Tomcat and Bobcat are easy as can be, with tip up barrels. She can rack our Makarov and CZ P01, as well, with the proper technique. Pulling the Mark I slide was beyond her hand strenth.

    Be Well,

    Scarface
     
  6. 22WMR

    22WMR Member

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    just a quick suggestion, increase the font size on your site, i can barely make it out!
     
  7. gunfan

    gunfan Member

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    Marshall3:

    One of the easiest and most accurate revolvers are the .32 S&W Long (.32 Colt New Police). If you can find one of either the "J" or "I" (even smaller than the "J") framed revolvers, even the Charter Arms "Undercoverette" are very easy shooters). Accurate to a fault, these little revolvers can be fired single action, have light recoil and are simply a joy to use on either the range, or as a "garden gun" (for pest control and small game).

    You can often find older Colt Police Positive and Pocket Positive revolvers at reasonable prices. The revolvers of the H&R and Iver Johnson have a bit of a heavy double action trigger pull, but their single action is usually light and smooth. While they are no S&W or Colt, the "non-premium" brands (Harrington & Richardson & Iver Johnson) are usually easier on the pocketbook.

    Here's a good example: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=41745134

    With a little practice, your wife and children can have a ball shooting these smaller-caliber revolvers.

    I hope that this was informative and helpful.

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2006
  8. ChickenHawk

    ChickenHawk Member

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    For semi-autos have you considered Glocks?

    Not many external controls. Pull trigger, goes bang.

    It doesn't get much simpler than that!

    Regards,
    ChickenHawk
     
  9. gudel

    gudel Member

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    try a 22 pistol or 22 rifle. they would be the easiest to shoot.
     
  10. RKirby

    RKirby Member

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    What ChickenHawk said....except substitute Springfield XD9 for Glock. Better factory trigger and easy to rack the slide. My wife has Multiple Sclerosis and has no problem operating this gun.
     
  11. Bobo

    Bobo Member

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    If your browser is Internet Explorer, click on View, then TextSize, then pick the size you like. If you have a browser other than Internet Explorer it should have something similar.
     
  12. Croyance

    Croyance Member

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    I think a ported .357 Magnum revolver loaded with .38 Specials would be good. I don't think I'd go with a true mousegun in this case, since the lack of weight will make recoil seem worse. The added ounces will pay off when used and should not be enough to cause problems in holding. Full sized grips that allow all fingers to support the gun are also recommended.

    Is a picture of a gerbil appropriate for a page on 'mouse' guns?:neener:
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2006
  13. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    From my experience with NRA teaching and also my wife and a friend of hers - there are two potential problems come up.

    With a semi - the racking of slide - and with small revo's, trigger management in DA mode.

    I try to encourage an ''opposite arms'' motion for semi's - making sure muzzle is downrange or safe. This often allows weaker hands and arms to manage. As for snub triggers - i just feel sometimes they are too tough for weaker hands and trigger fingers.

    My wife and her friend right now both carry Bersa Thunders (.380) (hey Chicken :) - hear that Ken? LOL) - and they manage the manual of arms very well - but neither as yet is happy with racking of larger 9mm's for instance.

    It turns out that while my wife had gotten on OK with my old M85 as her carry - in truth she was not getting accuracy - mainly due to trigger control problems.

    So - I would for sure include in the smaller guns, as semi's go - the Bersa is very amenable to weaker hands and arms - still gives .380, which is at least better than .32!
     
  14. grimjaw

    grimjaw Member

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    Didn't Beretta make a Cheetah 86F that had a tip up barrel, chambered for .380? May be hard to find, though.

    jmm
     
  15. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    Based on my experience with an elderly aunt there are three things to be concerned about.

    1.) Ergonomics
    2.) Weight
    3. ) Recoil

    In revolvers the problems are with DA trigger pull and/or cocking the hammer for SA shooting. My aunt chose a small frame revolver in .22 magnum rimfire.

    In my opinion it is not the best choice for her as she can't fire it DA, and has trouble cocking the hammer for SA shooting. She manages, but barely and I am uncomfortable with her thumb slipping off the hammer during cocking. I am looking at installing a hammer extension on this gun.

    I can't lighten the hammer spring any further without having problems with light strikes. A center fire caliber would actualy be better here as they require less of a strike for primer ignition. Allowing for lighter hammer/trigger pull. If recoil is a problem than purhaps a .32 H&R mag shooting .32 S&W or .32 S&W longs would make a better plateform than the .38 Spls. for example.

    On semi-auto's the problem is typically the force needed to work the slide. Even smaller auto's can give old hands a problem here and the only sure way of dealing with it seems to be with the tip - up barrel system used by Beretta. I think they are a good choice.

    Keeping weight of the gun and the recoil down is often times necessary and therefore one must look at alloy frame guns in lesser calibers to accomidate those like my aunt who have weak arthritic hands.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2006
  16. gunfan

    gunfan Member

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    If this is the case, the proposed Charter 2000 "I" frame idea that I have set forth before Nick (the company's CEO) to accept the 9 X 19 cartridge would also be an excellent concept. Not only would it handle a stout 9mm +P, but would handle the .380 (9mm short) as well. Small, light revolver, easy to shoot with two distinct ammunition power levels. Problem solved.

    Moon clips are wonderful, aren't they? :)

    Scott
     
  17. ChickenHawk

    ChickenHawk Member

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    Hi Chris!!

    I love my Bersa Thunder .380 but I wouldn't call it as easy to shoot as any of my Glocks.

    Also, I never loved the magazine safety. I keep threatening to follow hoge's intructions to disable that thing.

    Take care,
    ChickenHawk
     
  18. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    If you reckon that then Ken, there's hope to transition the ''girls'' to something bigger. They do tho shoot extremely well with that lil' gun.

    I have left the disconnects in place and they seem used to that.

    Best :)
     
  19. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Based on my experience helping people with disabilities of the hands and wrists, these guns are easy to use. This is not a complete list, it's just the ones I know work.

    Beretta 86 Tipup barrel (The barrel latches on the smaller caliber tip-ups seem to be much stiffer and harder to work--also, this is about the bottom size limit for a blowback .380 before recoil starts to be a problem)
    Colt Govt .380
    Colt Mustang
    Colt Mustang +II
    Kel-Tec P32
    Some .22 Autopistols (depending on how easy it is to work the slide/bolt)
    9mm H&K USP full size (getting near the top end of recoil for some, and the slide racking is also getting tough for some.)

    Revolvers CAN be ok, as long as they're not in too large a caliber. If the caliber gets too large, either the weight or recoil (or both) becomes excessive. Furthermore, the DA triggers on some revolvers these days tax the strength of weak hands. I've seen some folks struggle with them while using both index fingers on the trigger at once.
     
  20. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Agreed John plus - a lady I was coaching last year, tho only using her strong hand trigger finger, was reaching round trigger so much, she was holding gun way off line - all shots were all but random events!! Just too little strength.

    She basically needed another platform.

    Interested to hear you mention P3AT because I have found that makes some folks very recoil shy, as it's so small and snappy.
     
  21. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    I haven't had the opportunity to have anyone try out a P3AT, I agree with you that it's not likely to be a good choice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2006
  22. marshall3

    marshall3 Member

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    My choice: Beretta 86

    My choice for a handgun for people who have little hand strength is the Beretta 86 in .380. Here's a link with info:

    http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/gunpages/beretta86.htm

    You never need to rack to slide, because it tips up. Take your sweet time loading up a magazine. Insert it. Tip up the barrel. Put a cartridge in the chamber. Shut the barrel down. Use your thumb to cock the trigger. Put on the safety. Now, all you need to do to shoot the gun with the lighter single action trigger is just release the safety.
     
  23. marshall3

    marshall3 Member

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    Some recommendations I got by email...

    I'm passing on this information from a person who is really interested in easy to shoot guns. Very interesting, I think:

    A couple of more thoughts since I've learned more about handguns for my hand problems (hand surgery):


    By research online and by renting and shooting handguns, I have determined what works for me. I'm about as recoil sensitive as a person could be and still want to shoot.


    There are still some suitable handguns made, mostly by Bersa (.32 and .380), but these suitable models are not imported. It is maddening! I have found the CZ-83 a good choice and available.


    Here is what I recommend based on my problems, experiences, research, and my opinions:


    My hand surgery is 5 years old. So it's not as sensitive as it used to be, but I still need low recoil because my hand is held together by 4 screws.


    ===================================================


    For the most recoil sensitive (people who've recently had a hand operation for example):


    The .22 Magnum snub revolver is the only choice of pocket gun for the extremely recoil sensitive. The recoil is nothing and I think it has decent stopping power once you put 3 shots center mass.


    My grandfather used to poach deer with a .22 mag semi-auto rifle and he said 3 shots always dropped them to 60 yard with a rifle. This was in the 1950s and/or 1960s when .22 mag ammo was not as good as now.


    I believe .22 mag stopping power would be much better with a 3" barrel than a 2". A 3" barrel small frame .38 fits into my coat pocket, so a 3" .22 mag would too. Unfortunately no one makes a 3" barrel small frame .22 mag revolver right now. Smith and Wesson's .22 Mag was supposed to be available in 2" & 3" according to a S&W brochure I read, but it's not. Do you know how I can lay my hands on a 3" barrel .22 Mag small frame revolver? My preference would be the super light S&W .22 Mag in 3" barrel. I heard Colt used to make a 2.5", which is better than a 2".


    I don't trust semi-auto pistols in any rimfire (misfires possible).


    =======================================================


    For those with a bit less sensitive hands (like I am now that my hand surgery is 5 years healed):


    I'd really like to buy the Bersa Thunder .32 ACP because that's a pocket gun I can pocket and shoot. The recoil from a .32 of this weight (19.5 oz) would be no problem. I can't shoot those super small-light .32s like the Beretta (ouch). Do you know how I can get a Bersa Thunder .32? I'm told the Bersa Thunder .32 is not being imported. Crap. The Thunder .32 is the only pocketable gun that I could shoot that has more power than a .22 Mag snub.


    For some real stopping power, I'd like a Bersa Thunder .380 Plus. The Thunder 380 Plus is a larger pistol with a 15+1 capacity magazine. It weighs more than the regular Thunder 380. Note that the Plus is not the Deluxe. The Plus is a different gun. The Thunder 380 Plus is a full size 380 like a Beretta 84, but with a higher capacity than Beretta.


    The Bersa Thunder 380 Plus is supposed to have a better trigger and easier slide pull than the Berettas. I'm told the only advantages the Beretta has are chromed barrel and better mag release. Who cares about mag release? I'd never need to. Both weigh 23 oz. The Bersa Thunder 380 Plus is supposed to be the best full size 380 regardless of price. In addition, the price is a bargain. How can I get a Bersa Thunder 380 Plus?


    The last viable option with decent stopping power is the CZ-83 in .380. I like this pistol a lot because it weighs 29 oz, which should make this .380 a pussycat to shoot, even for a guy with a hand that's held together by screws. What I don't like is the lack of decocking safety and non-round hammer butt. The lack of decocker concerns me for the safety of my thumb if I should ever drop the hammer while decocking (weak thumb and fingers).


    Oh well, the CZ-83 is available, heavy, ergonomic, and fairly affordable. It also has a good trigger pull. It's heavy enough that I might even try one in the 9x18 Makarov cartridge for a bit more power. I hope I can work the slide (don't know how stiff).


    ============================================


    The three important factors for people with weak or handicapped hands are: we need good ergonomics, easy slide pull, easy smooth trigger, and low recoil. The low recoil comes from good ergonomics and larger size and weight. It would be nice to get these in a .380 for stopping power, but a .32 is an alternative for less recoil or less size gun. The Bersa .32 would be the ideal .32, if it were imported.


    The Bersa .380s are known for easy slide pulls and easy, smooth triggers. I can personally state the Bersas are great in these areas. Bersas are midweight .380 by my standards and marginal for recoil I can handle in .380. I wish the Bersas were a bit heavier. Berettas and Brownings are terrible for slide pull and trigger pull, in my experience, so forget them. Walthers are worse yet for trigger, heavy on slide pull, and not ergonomic in my opinion. So forget Walther.


    ============================================


    Glock .380s are good for recoil sensitive people (heavy, ergonomic, good trigger), but are not imported. Urggh! Oh well. I had a Glock .40 cal before my hand problems and I never felt safe without a saftety. Glocks are ergomic and have good triggers, but the slides are tough to pull back. So Glocks are not practical.


    Bottom line: CZ-83 and Bersa 380 Thunder PLUS are the only appropriate .380s for people with weak or handicapped hands. The CZ-83 being heavier is best for more sensitive people. The Bersa Thunder Plus being a bit lighter is better for those not quite as recoil sensitive people.


    Those those who can't handle these, or want a smaller gun to pocket that they can still handle with hand problems, the Bersa Thunder .32 would be ideal. For the really sensitive (fresh hand surgery for example), the .22 Mag snub revolver is only choice.


    Ideally, I'd like to have a pair of Bersas so I'd have the same user interface: One Thunder 32 for pocket and one Thunder 380 Plus for belly-fanny pack or holster.


    I prefer and recommend autos for recoil sensitive people because autos reduce recoil. The exception is the .22 Mag, which I would not want in an auto because I don't think rimfires are reliable in auto. Since .22 Mag doesn't kick, might as well have a revolver, especially since 7 or 8 round capacity.


    Conclusion: of the ideal guns mentioned for recoil sensitive hands, only the CZ-83 in .380 and .22 Mag revolvers are easily available in USA. The others are not imported (my local gun dealer tells me).


    Thanks for listening
     
  24. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    marshall3,

    You might want to try out the Kel-Tec P32. While it is small and lightweight, the locked breech design cuts down on recoil enough that it isn't nearly the beast that the weight and size suggests. That also makes the slide easier to operate than one might expect.

    Same with the Colt pistols I mentioned.
     
  25. wbond

    wbond Member

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    Hand Problems and easy handguns

    Hello all. My name is Chuck. I am the person with the hand problems who first raised these issues with one of your senior members.

    I had plenty of shooting experience years ago, before my hand problems. I used to shoot a .40 caliber Glock 23 with no problems. Times have changed due to severe hand injuries and arthritis.

    In addition to hand problems (4 screws hold my left hand together), I also have arthritis in both hands-fingers and my right wrist is COMPLETELY fused.

    This means I don't have a good hand. Since my right wrist is fused, it is rigid. So the right hand must absorb all recoil in thumb since my wrist can't roll with the punches. I am partly ambidextrous and can shoot almost as accurately lefty with the advantage of a good left wrist, but it's my left hand that has the middle and ring finger attached to hand by 4 screws and 2 artificial joints.

    The hand surgery was 5 years ago. For the first two years I could not shoot anything. During the 3rd and 4th year a .22 Mag snubby was my limit.

    Now after 5 years my hand has toughened up as much as it ever will. However, I have to be careful because aside from pain from too much recoil (.38 Special non +P for example), my doctor warned me that the screws in my hand could come loose or break or the artificial joints could break.

    So I'm not being a wushy for no reason. I'm sure there are plenty of elderly and other handicapped people with hand problems and some women with weak hands. So I'm sure I'm not alone. I think most people with hand problems give up shooting (as I did for 5 years before my hand operation and for 3 years after), or they settle for a .22 Mag revolver, which isn't bad in 3" barrel, but is anemic in a 2" barrel.

    After much research and testing: For a pocket gun I'd prefer a Bersa .32 ACP. For a holster-belly pack-fanny pack gun I'd prefer the new Bersa Thunder .380 Plus with 15+1 capacity and 23 oz weight. That is a new one for 2006.

    Currently I have a .22 Mag 2" barrel Taurus, which is a decent handgun, but too heavy for easy pocket carry considering the S&W .22 Mag 2" barrel is so light and recoil is nil for .22 Mags, even for me. For a .22 Mag I'd recommend the S&W. However, my hands are ready to step up to something more potent than a .22 Mag.

    I just ordered a CZ-83 in .380, but don't have it yet. Since it weighs 29 oz, is ergonomic, has easy trigger, it might be great. I don't know how difficult the slide will be to pull. I'm worried about the slide.

    One thing I do know about Bersa's is their slides, triggers are both easy and they are ergonomic. The Bersa's weight is medium for .380, in my opinion. The currently available Bersa's are perfect in .32, but too light in .380. I'm waiting for the larger, heavier Thunder 380 Plus to come out (23 oz and 15+1).

    Does anyone know where I can buy a new Bersa Thunder .32 ACP (also called Thunder 380 in .32 ACP)?

    For the large, high capacity Bersa Thunder 380 Plus (15+1) I'll just have to wait 2 or 3 months until they're available in USA. By March 2006 probably.
     
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