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Educate me a bit on internal magazine capacities

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Skribs, Mar 31, 2016.

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  1. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    The reason for this post is a slight difference in what I expect of bolt guns from playing video games vs. what I'm seeing online in catalogs. Virtually every game I have played where you have a bolt gun with an internal magazine, the capacity is 5 rounds. I've also seen plenty of specs online that say they can have capacities of 3, 4, 5, or 6 rounds.

    However, most of what I'm seeing in online catalogs are 4 rounds only. The only ones I see with 5 are smaller calibers, like .223. Are there bolt guns in larger calibers (i.e. .308, .300 winchester magnum) with capacities in the 5 range? Or have I been lied to by video games my whole life?
     
  2. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    For bolt guns, it's "typically" 3 for magnums, 4 .308/.30-06 bolt face and 5 for smaller varmint stuff. A bigger internal magazine starts making the stock very tall (like the M1) or making the magazine stick out the bottom (like the Lee Enfield)

    So yes, video games may have lied to you.
     
  3. MistWolf

    MistWolf Member

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    03s, 03-A3s, 91, 93 & 98 Mausers hold five 308/30-06/8mm class cartridges in the magazine
     
  4. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    Weatherby Vanguard, Howa, most Mausers and the Winchester 70 are all 5+1 for standard cartridges with standard magazines. Most others are 4+1 for standard cartridges. Almost all are 3+1 for magnum cartridges as far as I know. The exception is Savage rifles chambered in the WSM's. The WSM case is slightly fatter and you can only get 2 in a Savage magazine and close the bolt. You can put 3 in there, but the bolt won't close until the top round goes in the chamber as the bolt is closed making it 2+1. With some manufacturers you may be able to add 1 more round in 223.

    There are options for larger detachable box magazines with quite a few more rounds available.

    Most hunters that I know would load 4 or 5 in the magazine +1 more in the chamber so having 5-6 shots before a reload is realistic for standard rounds such as 308 and 30-06. So I'd say the video games are pretty accurate.
     
  5. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    I think in general, games count the five rounds--for the current example--as a four-round magazine, plus one in the chamber. In real life, this only happens if you reload with the last round still chambered, or load, release the mag, top it off, and put it back. I think I've only played one or two games that take that into account.
     
  6. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    Mosin-Nagant (which features a lot in the Call of Duty games set in WW2) is 5+1. The Lee-Enfield (also in the CoD series) holds 10+1. In the games set in more modern times, the M24 sniper rifle and most M40 variants hold 5+1.

    Most of the guns that hold 4 or less are hunting rifles optimized for either bigger cartridges, lighter weight, or slimmer stocks. It appears most military bolt-actions hold at least 5, though the trend is toward somewhat larger magazines (the M40A5 holds 10+1).
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
  7. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    So in other words if I have a rifle in .308 that says 4 round capacity, I should easily be able to load 5?

    I like multiples of 5, which is why I'm asking. Bit odd maybe, but I'm sure many people are like me in that respect.
     
  8. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Yeah, but it means 4 in the mag, then dropping one in the chamber and holding the others down as you close the bolt over top of them. This may be difficult or even impossible with some CRF designs, though, as the extractor doesn't like to snap over the rim, and in a few rifles physically cannot.
     
  9. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    I'm not aware of any "Modern" CRF rifle that will not let the extractor snap over the cartridge to top off. Ruger, Winchester, Kimber, and Interarms will. Even most of the older WW-1 and WW-2 military rifles can be made to do so even though not originally designed to.
     
  10. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    You know what I hate when people talk about magazine capacities?

    Stupid stuff like this:

    14+1

    I'm sorry, but that one round in the chamber does NOT count towards "magazine capacity".

    In fact, it's utterly stupid to talk about "+1" in the first place, in my opinion. EVERYBODY knows you can chamber a round and have a fully loaded magazine in the firearm.

    The ONLY place for it is in marketing, as some kind of hype to make it "seem" as if any given gun can somehow hold "more".


    Personally, cr*p like this is only useful for saying exactly how many rounds one actually has loaded in their firearm at any given time, in terms of being maxed out.
     
  11. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Well, you can't get +1 into a revolver or a break-action. I think it's accurate to say the magazine holds X, and the gun holds X+1.

    Personally, I hadn't thought of doing +1 in a rifle that you load through the action instead of under it.
     
  12. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    Not necessarily. If the gun is advertised as holding 4 in the magazine, it will only fit 4 in the magazine. But many bolt-action .308's (or those shooting .308-based rounds like .243 or 7mm-08) will hold 5 in the magazine, and most military bolt-actions hold 5 to 10 in the magazine.

    However, if you have a detachable magazine, you can load the chamber, top off the magazine, and reinsert, so that with a loaded chamber, the gun holds one round more than the listed capacity. So a rifle with a magazine capacity of 5 can actually have 6 rounds in the gun if the chamber is loaded. I'd only do that with a gun with a very secure safety/trigger system, though, and only in very specific contexts. And some rifles might not be able to do this at all (e.g. a top-loader that has to feed from the magazine).
     
  13. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    A Rem 700 308 with a blind mag will hold 4. One with a trap door mag will hold 5. I guess because the thin metal trap door frees up more space than the thick stock material that would be there otherwise.
     
  14. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Skribs;

    You should check out the 1917 Enfield .30-06 rifles. They are internal magazine & hold a relatively large number of rounds. I don't have one & can't remember the exact number, but if it were 10 it wouldn't surprise me.

    900F
     
  15. TRX

    TRX Member

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    P17 - six rounds. But ammunition still came on five-round strippers, because the strippers were made for the Springfield.
     
  16. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob Member

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    Doing so of course utterly defeats the purpose of controlled feed. If the extractor can snap over the rim going into the chamber, it can snap over going out.

    Thankfully my (reasonably) modern Winchester is correctly configured to do neither. If they're now doing it wrong, that's unfortunate.
     
  17. TheVision

    TheVision Member

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    The 1889 Schmidt-Rubin holds 12 rounds.
     
  18. valnar

    valnar Member

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    OP, are you hunting in those video games, or fighting?

    Most bolt-action guns these days are geared towards hunters, so capacity doesn't matter. However there are plenty of tactical alternatives too. I personally love my Tikka CTR. Gives me 10 rounds.

    You can also go to CDi to get many guns customized to support 10rd mags.
     
  19. Bart B.

    Bart B. Member

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    Agree.

    But the chances are slim to some lesser odds level. One edge of the extractor's about 45 degrees to the back edge of the case rim for easy slide over operation. The other's about 0 degrees to the back edge of the extractor groove where it grabs the case rim for extremely hard to slide over operation.

    M1, M14 and M16 extractors are push feed ones.

    Both controlled feed and push feed extractors operate the same way. One was designed for heavy duty military extractors and the other for less durable sporting ones.
     
  20. cougar1717

    cougar1717 Member

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    Everyone knows that movies and video games are the best source for accurate firearm information! :)
     
  21. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    There may be a lot they aren't accurate on, but magazine capacities are usually pretty close.
     
  22. Big Al Mass

    Big Al Mass Member

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    No, it isn't. I've tried it and it won't work. The problem is the cartridge interupter and the dimensions of the magazine box won't allow any more than 4 rounds with the bolt closed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
  23. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    I never thought THIS would be thread that got people arguing.
     
  24. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    I just tried it in my M39, and you're right! The magazine holds 5 (which is what the stripper clips hold), but the bolt strips off the top round when you close it, and you can't push the rounds down far enough to clear it. If you top off from the bottom, the magazine baseplate comes about 1mm shy of latching. So I stand corrected.

    Based on the capacity of the issued clips, I assume it was intended to routinely have one in the chamber when loaded, since you can only close the bolt on 4 in the magazine. That may explain the "robust" safety...
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
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