Effective range for .32ACP?

[SHR970]

And, if it comes as a surprise, where you aren't expecting the attack (as with "10 paces turn and have at it), it's even worse...

Really???? :banghead:...you really don't get he reference??

I know the 21 foot rule. I also know (and I think most everyone else gets it) that 10 paces turn and fire = duel where both opponents have their weapons out.

10 paces (march step is 25 feet) by two people is 50 feet.

Lets cut march step down to 15" (half step). That still means each person is 25 feet from one another.

So once again.....you take the bat; I'll take my PP.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Without the pre-warning, I might take the bat. Carried properly, the bat would be hard to see, and you might not even know what hit you.

 

[JERRY]

Its been reported that is takes 48 kfp of engery from a (bullet) projectile to inflict a fatal wound.

Do the math: velocity squared X bullet weight in grains DIVIDED BY 450436 to see where the .32acp drops below that.

THAT WOULD BE A 71GR. ROUND AT ABOUT 550 FPS.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Its been reported that is takes 48 kfp of engery from a (bullet) projectile to inflict a fatal wound.

A lot of folks have DIED from .32 and .25 and .22 wounds.

For self defense, it's not just inflicting a fatal wound that is sought -- it's getting the other guy to STOP trying to inflict wounds on you, to disable them, or to allow you to get the hell out of Dodge.

A .32 to the eye socket would arguably be fatal, but I don't know that I'd be able to do that, when under pressure, struggling, etc.

Saying all that, I'd like a larger diameter round delivered with more force, so that the likelihood of dissuading the other person is more likely, if I'm not able to get the best shot placement.

 

[Clark]

el Godfather
Please discuss any experiences that you may have.
Why do we not see more .32s and perhaps a +p+ versions? If we could get potent energy packed in to small bullets they will be ideal for ccw.

Left to right; welded up G22, stock P32, modified P32 with increased case support and barrel length

It was more than 10 years ago when the P32 came out, I got one, and started experimenting to see how much power I could get out of it.
To make a long story short:
1) Factory ammo will penetrate 1" of Douglas Fir lumber.
2) I got handloads up to penetrating 5" of the same piece of wood.
3) The way I did that was:
..a) Over load work up with Power Pistol
..b) 110 gr bullet
..c) Seat so long that it will not feed
..d) Weld up the feed ramp and re cut the chamber and feed ramp for better case support
..e) Weld and extender on the end of the barrel.

Discussion:
1) That 5" penetration round sheared off the ejector with excess recoil.
2) The P32 has better case support and chamber wall thickness than a P3AT, but the P3AT makes a bigger hole, so the hyper velocity of a P32 will not have the stopping power of a relatively wimpy Buffalo bore 380 +P 90 gr hollow point at 1050 fps.
3) Pressure
..a) The 32acp is SAAMI registered at 20.5 kpsi, and that is no warming to me for the P32, with it's great case support at .25" with a .15" case web.
..b) The 380 is SAAMI registered at 21.5 kpsi, and that is serious warning for the P3AT, and it's case support at .29" when the case web is only .175", given the larger inside diameter makes more hoop stress.

 

[JERRY]

A lot of folks have DIED from .32 and .25 and .22 wounds.

For self defense, it's not just inflicting a fatal wound that is sought -- it's getting the other guy to STOP trying to inflict wounds on you, to disable them, or to allow you to get the hell out of Dodge.

he asked about the effective range, not "stopping power", pointing a gun at a would be attacker could "stop" them from assaulting you.

for a caliber to be "effective" it must be able to inflict a lethal wound, not scare somebody or drop them on a dime.

there are too many folks shot with a .45acp who kept fighting for some time and never died or stopped until they chose to, does that make the .45acp ineffective?

 

[SHR970]

You can see the difference between stopping power and killing power in the following news story from my local rag. Note; this story is about a 22 but it is still relevant. You can find documented stories over the last 20 years that show successes and failures with almost any handgun caliber. Success and failure being relative to what YOU determine the line to be. In my book, success is making the aggressor STOP doing what he intends to or is doing to harm me or someone else. If the aggressor dies....well by definition we are talking about a use of deadly force incident in the first place.

Daily Breeze Story

In this case the 22 STOPPED the attacker in a timely manner.
In this case the 22 KILLED the attacker in a less than timely manner.
I'm sure that in the remaining minutes of this guys life he pondered his failure in the victim selection process. I doubt to this day you could convince the would be victim that a 22 is an ineffective paperweight.

To the OP's question.....effective range? If we assume the definition starts with the trigger has been pulled; then we must first start with how far away can you reasonably hit with it. A 45-70 out of a rifle is effective at a fair range...out of a derringer the dynamics change drastically. Therefore an important part of the discussion is platform.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

for a caliber to be "effective" it must be able to inflict a lethal wound, not scare somebody or drop them on a dime.

And this piece of scripture is found in which Shooter's Bible?

A lot of lethal wounds aren't rapidly lethal -- sometimes the wounded must bleed out or go into shock; the person thus wounded often has have the ability to harm or kill his opponent.

That being the case, just how quickly must that lethal shot take effect to be truly "effective"? A lot of non-lethal wounds STOP the fight quickly and most would say THAT is EFFECTIVE, too.

If you haven't read about the infamous FBI shootout in Miami you should. point... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Please note: I'm not making the case FOR .32 acp as a self-defense round, only that your earlier claim about the traits of an "effective" round is too simplistic as stated, and doesn't conform to what is seen in the real world.

 

[JERRY]

The op did not mention time of incapasitation.

Effective range would end where the bullet fails to have enough enery to create a lethal wound. IT IS SIMPLE MATH. CALCULATE AT WHAT VELOCITY A 71GR. 32ACP ROUND NO LONGER HAS A CERTAIN LEVEL OF ENERGY.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The original poster didn't mention lethal, either -- YOU injected that variable -- and not all experts would agree with that insertion or the assumptions underlying the related formula. He asked about EFFECTIVE RANGE. (He wanted to know MAXIMUM RANGE he could use a .32 round, and a bit about what how much farther than that it might be somewhat effective...)

You wrote: velocity squared X bullet weight in grains DIVIDED BY 450436 to see where the .32acp drops below that. THAT WOULD BE A 71GR. ROUND AT ABOUT 550 FP. Your focus was on LETHALITY.

You can see performance tests all of the time in gun mags for rifles and pistols, where the results vary with the powder used, the length of the barrel, and the weight of the projectile. The formula as used above seems to use unstated values for velocity and bullet weight, but velocity would also be affected by barrel length and the powder used -- and we can't be sure that the OP's gun would match that used in the formula. Most importantly, the formula doesn't seem to tell us EFFECTIVE RANGE, which was the question.


.

 

[majortoo]

32 acp

I seem to recall (great opening line, often used by old guys like me!) that Mr. Browning himself carried a .32 of his design as his weapon of choice. I wish I still had an 03 Colt that my father carried....I learned to shoot a handgun under his careful supervision with that little .32, and he taught me how to perforate beer cans out to 15 yards with no problem. Great memories!
I also seem to recall that "Bad LeRoy Brown" carried a .32, as well as a "razor in his shoe!"...
If confronted by anyone carrying a .32, it might behoove one to consider that he or she might know how to use it! There is the story of the girl from Idaho (you may adapt the story to meet your needs)... She was out with her boyfriend and they were attacked by an angry grizzly bear. All she had was her trusty .32 Colt 03. (Again, fill in the blanks with your weapon of choice!) She simply took aim, shot her boyfriend in the kneecap, left him to deal with the bear and was able to walk away at a brisk pace, unscathed! Well, you can a lot in this forum?!