Electric triggers?

[Impureclient]

I was thinking about bench rested guns and how so much is done with them to take away human error. Why don't they install electronic triggers in firearms?
I think there are some air rifles that have this. Even more error being taken out of it, why not a electric trigger with a remote switch?

 

[Justin]

The Remington Etronix was the most widely made electrically ignited rifle. It was a market failure.

There are some electronically fired target guns, off the top of my head, Pardini makes electrically-fired guns for use in Olympic Free Pistol and Bullseye competitions.



Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[pikid89]

The etronix was a good idea in theory, but remington tried to bite off too much in one bite. The electronic trigger actuated an electrical sognal that iginted an electrically sensitive primer, rather than impact sensitive.

An electronic trigger that that actuates a mechanical system may be better accepted, at least in the target or recreation crowd...electronics like this are too voodoo for the self defense crowd

 

[HoosierQ]

At some point if you take to much of the human out of it the thing becomes an ammo (or rifling, or barrel) testing machine rather than a firearm. What is the point? Modern ignition systems (hammer or striker) work perfectly well in 10,000 different guns (maybe 100,000). Why change?

Now when you're talking about some kind of electric rotary cannon like the famous minigun you're talking about a horse of a different color. Short of that, no point really.

 

[Sam Cade]

What is the point?

Putting holes in stuff in the most efficacious manner possible.

 

[taliv]

i had 2 of the etronx, and had one rebarreled in 6XC. it was probably the most accurate gun i've ever owned.

the trigger was the best trigger i've ever shot. i'd take it over any anchutz, jewel, x-treme, geisele, huber, timney, whatever. none are even in the same ballpark.

why change? one word: LOCKTIME
it's orders of magnitude faster.

other advantages:
exceptionally smooth trigger pull because there are no mechanical sear type parts rubbing. it's just a switch. when it makes contact and electrons can move from one spot to another, it goes bang.

the bolt lift is exceptionally light and smooth as well because you are not recocking the firing pin when you lift the bolt, so you can operate the bolt much faster and stay on target better.


to answer the OP's question, the etronx was released before every infantry dude had 12 batteries on his m4, for red dot, day laser, IR laser, IR illuminator, and surefire spotlight. it was released back when 99 out of 100 people would have told you batteries don't belong on a combat weapon or a hunting rifle.

it's a different time. people think differently about rifles today and technology. to put it into perspective, tracking point has sold every one of the $27000 systems they've produced. i think an electronic ignition system, if it were implemented in a tactical style stock instead of a sucky hunting stock, would sell out fast. i'd buy one again if the primers were reasonably available.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

If we take away all of the human factor, why call it a competition?
They are attempting to make it where the average shooter can have a chance. Well, the average shooter shouldn't have a chance. Competition isn't to see who is average, it is to see who is best. That requires human ability to come into play.

 

[tuj]

Pardini makes an Olympic rapid fire gun that uses an electronic trigger. Most people say the only advantage is that you can dry-fire it without a plug/cocking it. The mechanical has a better feel.

As for benchrest, I have seen guys use a photo-shutter remote to activate their trigger. Personally I think that's cheating. A Jewel two-ounce trigger is a thing of wonder and its hard to screw up your shot by trigger control once you get used to how light and sensitive it is.

There was a guy on rimfire central who was designing an e-trigger for a 10/22. Not sure how far he ever got.

Someone said the e-trigger has a faster locktime... I suppose this could be so depending on the design, but most designs I have seen have a solenoid that trips the sear, just like a mechanical trigger. So the mechanical lock-time is no different; the hammer/striker still needs to move.

 

[hammerklavier]

It seems like it would be the ideal for bullpup designs.

 

[X-JaVeN-X]

At some point if you take to much of the human out of it the thing becomes an ammo (or rifling, or barrel) testing machine rather than a firearm. What is the point? Modern ignition systems (hammer or striker) work perfectly well in 10,000 different guns (maybe 100,000). Why change?

Now when you're talking about some kind of electric rotary cannon like the famous minigun you're talking about a horse of a different color. Short of that, no point really.

Why don't you still hunt with a spear?

 

[Dr.Rob]

Didn't Daisy make an 'electric' version of their caseless ammo rifle?

Or am I thinking of Veore?

 

[tuj]

Dr. Rob: Voere VEC-91 fired electrically primed ammo. The Daisy V/L used hot air to ignite the primer on their caseless ammo.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Thanks, I thought Daisy had fiddled with electric ignition too.

 

[jim243]

Why don't you still hunt with a spear?

It requires a special permit, not covered under your hunting lic. (LOL)


Jim

 

[pezo]

I'd fear eventual unreliability. Some things should never be electrical. Including small arms. I can't get a phone to last a year.

 

[baz]

I'd fear eventual unreliability. Some things should never be electrical. Including small arms. I can't get a phone to last a year.

^^I'm even reticent about other uses of electricity in firearms, such as batteries in optics. I do have a couple of firearms fitted with red/green dot scopes and a couple with lasers. And I keep plenty of spare batteries on hand. But my main "go to" weapons are all battery free.

But this view is becoming anachronistic, I guess:

to answer the OP's question, the etronx was released before every infantry dude had 12 batteries on his m4, for red dot, day laser, IR laser, IR illuminator, and surefire spotlight. it was released back when 99 out of 100 people would have told you batteries don't belong on a combat weapon or a hunting rifle.

Still, I think it is prudent to be able to fall back on technology that is not quite so vulnerable.

 

[303tom]

Had a guy try and sale me a front stuffer with a electric trigger. He said it was the newest thing. I told him to Stuff It !....................

 

[jmorris]

the solenoid style still have "lock time" and using a special primer is stupid. The Remington etronix primers so for $200/1000 even when someone is not trying to stick it to you.

Back in the mid '80's the best idea I have seen was imported through Beeman, made by Krico. Most of the rifles they imported were .22lr but a few centerfire rifles came through too, all used standard ammunition and primers.


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Kricotronic:+electric+thunderbolt.-a03659515

 

[Jim Watson]

Interesting.
I knew there was such a thing as the Kricotronic but had not read a detailed range report.
I think its big hangup would be the electrode life. Replace every 500 rounds for $8.00?
I also never heard of a centerfire version.

Back in the 1960s there was the Fusil Electrique, an electric ignition shotgun made in France, imported briefly by A&F.
It required insulated electric primers so was subject to the same limitation as the Remington. It had no electronics. Just a battery, wires, contacts, and trigger switches.

 

[jmorris]

Yeah, $8/1000 was more than half the cost of the ammo back then. It would be pretty easy to make one for yourself using a .040" Tungsten TIG welding electrode.

If you save all your old magizines it's in the march 1985 Guns and Ammo.

IIRC Jim I sent you a copy of the email I received from Beeman and Krico. I think all they imported were .22lr and .222 versions and very small numbers (like only 5 of the centerfire rifles).

 

[jmorris]

If you save your old PM's I sent these to you on April 15 2009.



“I wrote:

My memory may not be all that it could be; however, I seem to remember reading about and electronic 22 bolt action target rifle around 1985-86. I want to say it was made by Beeman, do you have any information on this?

Thank you,
Jm

From: Robert Beeman ([email protected])


your memory is great! Beeman was the exclusive importer for Krico firearms from about 1986-88. What you are referring to is the Beeman/Krico Model 340 ST Kricotronic - listed on page 961 of the 27th Ed. of the Blue Book of Gun Values for $550 in 60% of new condition to $1295 in 100%.

The Blue Book GV has three errors regarding this - they will be correcting them in the next issue. 1. The Kricotronic system is not (as listed in BBGV) an electronic trigger as found on several brands of match guns but rather it is electronic ignition of conventional primers. An electronic spark instantly and without any mechanical movement ignites the primer when the trigger is pulled. (This surely would give forensic investigators fits - no firing pin mark on fired cases!). 2. Several of the Krico centerfire rifles also displayed this astonishing system- evidently ahead of its time, it was not well accepted and was not produced after 1988. 3. Beeman Precision Arms Inc. was the U.S. importer of Krico firearms about 1986-88 but was not listed as an official importer by BBGV. Also, we imported very few (ten??) of these special guns, and extremely few (50??) were made - so the values are probably well understated.”

From Krico

“Dear Morris,

there was only a small number of this rifles built in the early 80th.
As KRICO was not strong enough to penetrate the UIT-Match rifle business we stopped the project.
In the mean time we offered our know how to REMINGTON, ANSCHÜTZ, WALTHER and more companies in this business, but these are to conservative to see the advantages of this firing system.
We are still looking for a potential partner.

Best regards
Arndt G. Kriegeskorte
KRICO & falko
Kriegeskorte Handels- GmbH
Nurnberger Stra?e 6
D - 90602 Pyrbaum
Tel.: +49 ( 0 ) 9180 278 - 0
Fax: +49 ( 0 ) 9180 266 - 1
Mail: [email protected]
Home: www.krico.de
Katalog: www.falko.de
GF.: Arndt G. Kriegeskorte, Elisabeth Kriegeskorte
Reg.Nr.: Nbg HRB 12 868
USt.-Nr.: DE 132 758 038
St.-Nr. 201/130/80087
"

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Why don't you still hunt with a spear?

The OP was about bench rest guns, which are used in competition, not hunting rifles.
Hunting is about putting meat on the table the easiest way possible, at least to me it is.

 

[340PD]

High end target airguns have had them for years in various models.

 

[taliv]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/survival/gear/1277311

Trigger pull is adjustable from a factory setting of 2.3 pounds down to a half-pound. And, unlike mechanical triggers with friction and wear between moving parts, the EtronX with no moving parts gives you pulls that are smooth and consistent, with 36 percent less travel than the standard 700. Lock time for the electronic firing circuit is slashed to 27 microseconds. That's a 99 percent reduction compared to the standard 700's.

note that there are tradeoffs with reliability. batteries are vulnerable, but so are moving mechanical parts, and removing the delicate and often troublesome sear engagement and springs from match triggers and not having to carry a bottle of lighter fluid for your jewel trigger is probably a net wash in reliability.

also batteries and other power sources have come a long way in past ten years. look at the 511 light for life ultracapacitor that does 100% recharge in 90 seconds and rated for 50,000 charging cycles.

if you were making one of these today you could make it a heckuva lot cooler than stuffing a 9volt duracell in the buttstock.

btw, all the primers i bought were $95/k, which was quite a bit more, but it's a spurious argument since if electronic triggers caught on, volume would go up and pricing would go down to be comparable to other primers.

 

[Zoogster]

Hunting is about putting meat on the table the easiest way possible, at least to me it is.

That is not the case for the majority of hunters.

In most of the nation it costs more per pound of deer meat than beef, and much more than chicken and pork.
Cost per pound includes gas to go to a remote location, average gear, hunting license, tags, if they have a butcher prepare it, etc..it is more than buying meat on sale at the store.
Then only around 30% of the animal weight is used meat.
The resulting cost per pound for lets say a 100 pound deer giving around 30 pounds of meat far exceeds what buying 30 pounds of meat would have.
Many people buy scents, hunting clothes, calls, decoys, a blind or rent one or a place to go etc
Just the hunting license alone where I live plus single deer tag is around $80. If I bought some 99c per pound chicken I could get 80 pounds of food for that alone. On top of that many people find wild game lean and 'gamey' flavored and have to add additional fat (more cost) just to prepare as they would commercial meat.
Even many people that tell themselves they are doing it for meat are paying several times what meat costs to buy.

The image of the guy with limited finances that has to hunt to make ends meat is fictional and not reality in most of the country, it is only cheaper in a few limited parts of the nation.
As a result hunting is really more about recreation.
On top of that there is not enough wild animals to supply even 5% of the population's meat demand. The US kills over 10 billion livestock a year for food.
The number of deer is estimated around 30 million or so.
Even adding in other game like hogs etc it becomes quite clear the numbers simply don't add up. The brief period of the Great Depression wiped out many wild animals in many parts of the nation and it took well into the 1970s for them to recover. And the population of the United States back then was only 122 million.
So hunting must be looked at as a recreational resource, it is all that can be supported. There may be a tiny fraction of a percent that can subsistence hunt but the wild animal population could not even support 1% of the population for a brief period of time.

When you look at it as a recreational resource that typically costs well in excess of what it costs to buy meat, the tools used to hunt are no longer about putting meat on the table. They are luxuries that a man chooses to own to enable them to enjoy a hobby which includes enjoying the meat of the game they harvest while taking part in a sport.
So it is in fact a sport and a luxury for the vast majority.