Electromagnetic pulse

Discussion in 'Shooting Gear and Storage' started by realcav, Feb 29, 2012.

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  1. realcav

    realcav Member

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    I was just obsessing on the question of whether my gun safes push button lock would be fried closed just when I would need it most. Any of the brain trust have an answer?
     
  2. Black Butte

    Black Butte Member

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    Yup
     
  3. Telekinesis

    Telekinesis Member

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    Build a faraday cage around your gun safe and any electronics you want to keep. Or better yet, just build a giant faraday cage around your entire house! I'm sure your wife and local home owners association would just love it! :D
     
  4. OTR

    OTR Member

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    Yep, no worky for you.
    I've read that Ft. Knox is/has come out with a dual locking safe. It allows you to utilize an electronic lock or a manual lock.


    Read the book: One Second After
    By:William R. Forstchen

    It is a very interesting read about an EMP over the U.S.
     
  5. Pietro Beretta

    Pietro Beretta Member

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    I was just thinking about that the other day -- along with emergency radios as well... lol
     
  6. MAKster

    MAKster Member

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    According to all the youtube videos, you can open a gun safe in a few minutes with a big crowbar. After an end of the world EMP, you'll have plenty of free time to force open your safe.
     
  7. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    According to the youtube videos you can open a Master lock with a can of soda too.
    But I wouldn't count on it working on a good gun safe.

    I've noticed a very high incidence / percentage of Morons on YouTube where it comes to all things gun related.

    BTW: Isn't a solid steel gun safe already a Faraday Cage??

    I think it would be one of the safest places to be during a lightening strike, or an EMP.

    rc
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  8. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Firstly, the potential for an EMP is miniscule.

    Secondly, in the event of an EMP your guns aren't going to be your first, second or even fifth concern.
     
  9. OTR

    OTR Member

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    I have to politely disagree with you on the possibility of an EMP attack. I do believe that it is a threat; this is because when Iran tests' a new missile, a lot of them blow up in the air. A majority of people see this as a failure on Iran's part, because they didn't hit a target. But if you look at the requirements of a successful EMP attack, the nuke must be detonated at a specific elevation (30-120 miles) for it to be effective.

    The wonderful thing about an EMP attack is that there is less radiation and no initial mass catastrophic deaths. The problem with an EMP is it knocks a country back into the stone age and millions of people die slowly. Also people will eventually kill each other for food to survive.

    Food will of course be the main reason why you will want access to your guns. After several days, all refrigerated food will spoil/rot. Smart people would quickly start shooting any wildlife for food to fatten up, because soon everyone else will have the same idea. After a few weeks there will be a limited supply of wildlife to go around and healthy people will start the slow death of starvation. The starving people will then become scavengers and a threat to anyone that has food. If you have food this late in the game, you will again want access to a weapon to defend yourself, family, and of course your food.

    Also, think of all the people that will die after 30+ days when their prescription meds run out. Think of all the nut jobs running around after their psychological meds run out. This is when you will care about having access to your weapons as well.

    I do highly suggest reading the book One Second After. It does offer a unique perspective if an event like this did occur in our country. I don't know if it will happen to the U.S., but I do believe Israel could use this strategy against Iran and that it is possibly high on their list.

    If you really have a lot of time on your hands, look at the PDF files from the EMP commission report from 2001(http://empcommission.org/).

    Just something to think about,
    OTR
     
  10. Old Shooter

    Old Shooter Member

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    Does anyone make good quailty gunsafes with only a mechanical lock?

    If not, this sounds like a good reason to keep them under the bed.
     
  11. wrc

    wrc Member

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    Both conventional and "physics-package-based" EM weapons haven't lived up to their hype.

    Use a mechanical lock if you're really concerned.
     
  12. Derry 1946

    Derry 1946 Member

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    The greater danger is probably from a naturally-occurring solar plasma pulse. These routinely interfere at the pesky level with communications, satellites, etc. We have been in a quiescent period for a while. A big one would certainly disrupt GPS and wireless communications. Banks and commerce could also be affected. Katrina knocked out electricity and cell service. Text still worked, and old rotary phones.
     
  13. pingpingping

    pingpingping Member

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    This seems like a huge amount of speculation. I'm pretty sure my Bronze Age implements will be unaffected...
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  14. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Manual locks are awesome.
     
  15. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    All my safes have S&G manual locks. I did this because I have heard that the failure rate on the electronic ones were higher, now i guess I have another reason.
     
  16. tdstout

    tdstout Member

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    But the electronic keypad isn't inside of the safe, it's on the outside. Would that make a difference?
     
  17. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    OTR,

    I've been working in Oak Ridge (yes, THAT Oak Ridge) most of the 30+ years of my professional life. There is NO credible threat of EMP any more.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  18. OpticsPlanet

    OpticsPlanet Member

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    Well, make sure and let these folks know that - they seem to think it might be a credible threat, based on the design of the plane:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-4

    I have a buddy from high school that has worked there for years. He had the only business card at the reunion that said "Y-12 Nuclear Weapons Plant", if I recall correctly.

    Outstanding museum in Oak Ridge, I would recommend it to anyone traveling through the area.

    How can you not love a sports team like this?

    1646154693-2.gif

    Mark H.
     
  19. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Did you note the year it was introduced into service? 36 years ago and 15 years before the collapse of the Soviet Union, something thought nearly unimaginable at the time and completely unexpected when it was designed.
     
  20. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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  21. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Zak,

    The vulnerability to EMP is high, but the threat of EMP isn't. The EMP commission looked at vulnerability. With risk assessment being a combination of the vulnerability assessment and threat assessment our risk is low. We're more vulnerable than we were in the '70s making the consequences of EMP more catastrophic, but the threat is negligible now in this century. That could change, but unlikely to increase.
     
  22. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    One of my takeaways from the report is that there may be a lot of system effects, but the likelihood that an EMP destroys any particular device is fairly low. At realistic levels, it is not a magic ray that destroys all solid state devices.
     
  23. cyclopsshooter

    cyclopsshooter Member

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    Thanks Zak, for that light reading material :p
     
  24. OpticsPlanet

    OpticsPlanet Member

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    I did see the dates for the plane, and I agree that things change over time.

    My best friend was the Flight Engineer on the E-4, spanning two Presidential administrations. He says their job was to follow Air Force One around, and to pick up the President and other useful folks in the event of a Really, Really Bad Day and the festivities would then be directed from there. He was also the Flight Engineer on the YAL-1A Airborne Laser Test Bed, tracking and destroying a boosting ballistic missile in flight.

    Recently retired and still in contact with his flight group at Offutt, I asked him about ten minutes ago if he would describe EMP as still being a credible threat, his response was "HELL yes!" He did say that IF it ever happens, I will have bigger things to worry about than my safe. :scrutiny:

    A feature I like on some of the electronic safes we sell is that the keyed lock is hidden behind a logo plate on the door. It requires that a couple of screws be removed to expose the keyed lock.

    It might dissuade someone from attempting to open the keyed lock. I remember seeing a big flap in the news about people being able to defeat the same type of lock on bicycles (I believe Kryptonite was the brand) using the body from a bic pen. Out of sight, out of mind, and all that.

    Mark H.
     
  25. helotaxi

    helotaxi Member

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    The threat to an individual piece of equipment that isn't plugged into the electrical grid or doesn't contain a long piece of wire on its own from an EMP is very low. EMP relies on long wires to amplify the induced current from the EMP. Without that amplification, the effects are essentially nil. I would prefer a mechanical lock myself for basic reliability reasons.

    One Second After is a fantastic book but some of the actual effects are overstated. Society would go straight to hell and the global effects would certainly be catastrophic, but it is an exaggeration that all items containing an electrical circuit are instantly and irreparably destroyed. Autos are actually fairly resistant to EMP, but gas pumps are going to be toast.
     
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