Elevated threat level-will you now carry a rifle in the car too?

[davec]

The NYC PD, Newark PD, and Port Authority police along with the National Guard and others from departments im not privy too who are currently on the sidewalks and subway stations, tunnels, and bridges etc etc have automatic weapons.

A civilian with a rifle here (aside from being illegal) is probably going to find themselves very shot very quickly if they display it during a situation.

But those of you in bumbleheck rural America who think Bin Laden has your town (population 500) targeted for attack, well if it makes you feel better...keep one in the car. Its a free country.

 

[JohnKSa]

As i said this is the US not some freakin' third world country.

The only bright spot in 911 was when citizens got involved and overwhelmed the terrorists on the DC bound plane. They used eating utensils and whatever they had to hand.

It's not so far-fetched to think that citizens might thwart another terrorist attack in the U.S.

A civilian with a rifle here ... is probably going to find themselves very shot very quickly if they display it during a situation.

I seem to recall a lot of armed citizens getting involved in the UT sniper case--not one was shot by the police. Anyway, if the police are present and armed then there's not much reason for a citizen to grab a rifle. If they're not present or have been neutralized then they're not going to be shooting anyone.

The legality issue is another story.

 

[DevilDog]

A civilian with a rifle here ... is probably going to find themselves very shot very quickly if they display it during a situation.

A valid point, undercover, plain clothes and off duty LEOs do get shot by arriving-on-scene LEOs on occassion.

But... if you believe your life is in danger, do you not arm yourself because an LEO might show up and might shoot you thinking you are the bad guy?

9/11 terrorists relied on the idea that the entire crew was trained and passengers were expected to automatically submit, allowing them to do whatever.

Regardless of the risk, the right and the only appropriate thing to do when confronted by a criminal or a terrorist is to resist to the best of your ability. I know (from experience) that is much easier said on a forum than acting on it.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Could someone please describe the imaginary terrorist scenario where a rifle in the trunk of one's car would do any good to prevent an attack?

 

[JohnKSa]

Lone Gunman,

A real life (not imaginary) example of how an armed Israeli stopped a terrorist attack has already been provided.

And I already mentioned that the UT sniper was an example of citizens needing long guns against a criminal. Not a terrorist as we typically think of it today, but certainly it was a terroristic attack.

The Hollywood bank robbery might have been wrapped up a little sooner if a citizen with a rifle had been present. Not that he would have whipped it out and started shooting, but I'm sure any police officer on the scene would have been very grateful to be offered the use of it. It would have been faster than having to commandeer them from a local store. I don't think it's hard to imagine scenarios where a citizen's long gun might be of use to police on the scene of a terrorist attack.

Are you trying to talk people out of legally carrying long arms in their vehicles? I can't imagine why you would want to do that...

 

[hso]

An "elevated threat level" won't motivate me to toss a rifle in the car.

 

[SRYnidan]

I think there are a couple of disturbing trains of thought getting started here.
First if you think that only the places listed are under threat try again.
If you were a terrorist would you not consider striking a secondary target if the mission security on the first is blown and your adversary was concentrating his assets?

Second view the video from Afghanistan the attack will be fast and violent if your equipment is not immediately at hand you will not have time to go fetch it.

 

[CAS700850]

While I love the idea of an armed citizen thwarting a terrorist incident, I will not be carryiong a long gun in my vehicle for such purposes.

First of all, I find myself without a proper long gun at this time. I know, my fault, and trust me, I am saving funds to correct this problem ASAP!

Second, if and (God forbid) when I find myself in the middle of such a situation, I will be limited to what I have close at hand, simply because I will likely be a good distance from my vehicle. Whether it be at work (one block away) at the Mall (across the mall), the store (out in the parking lot) or where ever, I will need to fight my way to the long gun. Not a very optimistic situation, I'm afraid.

Third, if I was able to get to my long gun, I fear that I become a target for both sides of the battle, and I don't want to be in that situation. Rather not be shot in the back by a responding police officer who sees a dark haired, tan skinned individual armed with a rifle and decides I must be a terrorist.

Fourth, and a real concern for me, is that car break-ins are a serious concern. While I'm willing to take the rist with a car stereo, CD's, a knife, a multi-tool, and some other miscelaneous items, I am not willing to risk a firearm in this way. Too expensive, too valuable (beyond cash to me) and too dangerous to the rest of the world. Maybe if I could secure it in some type of safe mounted in the vehicle...

The only place where easy access to a long gun will be helpful is at my home, and fortunately, my neighborhood is way donw the list of terrorist targets.

 

[marklbucla]

Could someone please describe the imaginary terrorist scenario where a rifle in the trunk of one's car would do any good to prevent an attack?

What if you saw them in the preliminary staging period of an attack? Maybe stuffing a bomb in the back of the truck a few blocks or even miles away from their target?

I agree that a rifle would probably be useless in preventing a terrorist attack and that only major cities are likely to be targeted, but what if one could have been stopped in your local area? Not to mention the other non-anti-terrorist uses for a truck/car gun.

A good shotgun can run as cheap as $150 and I know a rifle could be had for a little more than that. Just look at this as an excuse to buy another gun!

 

[Swamprabbit]

No I don't. Since I have no intentions of carrying the rifle in an easily accessible manner, I don't see any circumstance where I can do any good by having one in the vehicle with me.

 

[R.H. Lee]

I'm not likely to decide to engage a bunch of terrorists in a firefight. What is the scenario? Maybe a bunch of terrorists firing into a crowd with fully auto AK's, RPG's and who knows what else? So I'm gonna run to the trunk of my car, pull out my trusty SKS and hand full of stripper clips and take them on????

Right.

If I survive the initial attack I'll be ducking and running for cover as fast as I can.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Roadkill Coyote, you are correct, sort of. Sometimes car bombs are spotted and or stopped before they reach their destination and sometimes somebody can do something about it. The examples I have seen so far have been in other countries where the activities are a little more common than here. I should have said that the thing about car bombs is that you usually don't know they are a car bomb until they go off. Happy? Good, as we have crap for a record in the US of stopping such events. We, the US, has crap for a record of stopping such events in front of our soldiers barracks in foreign countries or in front of our embassies.

Could a car bombing be stopped? Sure, but you gotta spot the car bomb in advance of the explosion. How do you do that? As you are driving down the highway and you see another vehicle, one of a million in NYC today, how do you tell it is a car bomb? And once that you, as John Q. Public has identified it as such, do you just open fire with that rifle you are carrying with you in the car? Inquiring minds want to know. Every moment you wait places that car bomb that much closer to an intended target or alternate target. What do you do?

At the same time, I think Swamprabbit is at the other end of the scale a little too far by believing there is nothing he could do with a rifle. First, there is very little chance any one of us Americans will be in harm's way of a terroristic attack. Of those that are, only a very small percentage will have any idea what is going on and even a smaller percentage will know what to do or how to do it. The fact of the matter is that regardless of the terror threat level, we are all still hugely more likely to be the victim of some other type of crime, such as from a crackhead as I noted above, not a terrorist.

If you are going to be carrying a rifle in response to the threat level and potential risk of car bombs and the like, you would be remiss if you are not wearing a flak jacket or ballistic armor. The rifle won't do squat in protecting you from the explosion, but a vest will.

 

[Richardson]

A rifle may or may not be useful against a car bomber, I wouldn't know.

If that car bomb were to be more deadly than the initial "boom" (meaning, it was a nuclear or biological weapon), then I might well want a rifle to help me get home. Panic and opportunists can cause a lot of problems. Having something handy (AK clone, M4 clone, or for PC purposes, a Winchester '94 or a shotgun) could go a long way in helping deter some wayward souls from thinking about you as a target...

Richardson

 

[Diamondback]

HIGHLY unlikely a rifle would be of any use.....if one did happen to be in the vicinity of a terrorist bomb attack one would probably be more concerned with helping pull bodies out of rubble or assisting the wounded until medical aid arrived. A good first aid kit, a pair of work boots, a jug of water, some energy bars, a blanket and perhaps some surgical masks for the dust all would be MUCH more useful......and don't forget to review basic first aid proceedures soon.

-regards

 

[Smoke]

An "elevated threat level" won't motivate me to toss a rifle in the car.

Amen.

Islamic terrorists are pretty far down the scale of realistic threats out here.
But Crawford and Fort Hood (Largest Military Base) are within 30 miles.

I already carry a long hun with me everywhere I go...I just don't entertain fantasies of stopping car bombs, towel heads or 727's.

Coyotes and feral hogs are more likely.

Smoke

 

[JohnKSa]

So far, all of the arguments against are pretty much the standard fare the antis use against CHL.

Likely to get shot by mistake.

Not likely to need it.

Not likely to be able to use it effectively or determine when to use it correctly.

Police will protect you.

Kind of amusing in a twisted sort of way...

I don't think that anyone's arguing that it's LIKELY you'll need a rifle. However, it's not impossible that you would, and if you did (or if someone else did--as with the cops in the North Hollywood bank robbery), nothing else will work.

 

[Boats]

The main difference in the arguments between not having the desire to pack a rifle and CHL arguments made by the anits is the "C" part.

My own view is that a concealed handgun is practical because it is a go anywhere, do anything proposition. A rifle, at a minimum, is brandished upon presentation.

The last time I carried a rifle in the trunk was during the Rodney King riots, even though I didn't live in LA. I did live in a city at the time and wasn't taking any chances. General social breakdown is the only thing that will see me packing a rifle as a constant companion.

Since I am packing a .357 magnum revolver more and more, if I need range out of my concealed handgun, I can summon it. I can, single action, hit a torso sized gong at about 100m these days about 2/3rds+ of the time and I get better every time out. At least the .357 still has a lot left when it gets out that far compared with most handgun calibers. I don't forsee a time like in Open Range where you will be able to openly tote a loaded rifle or shottie without getting busted or ostracized by the sheeple.

 

[Roadkill Coyote]

Double Naught Spy

The examples I have seen so far have been in other countries where the activities are a little more common than here.

Complacency

we have crap for a record in the US of stopping such events. We, the US, has crap for a record of stopping such events in front of our soldiers barracks in foreign countries or in front of our embassies.

and a poor track record go hand in hand.



As for your straw man about driving down the highway, obviously if you thought there was a car bomb driving down the highway, you would call the police, and get out of the way. No one here has suggested that a rifle is the only or even the preferred solution.

 

[aguyindallas]

The best thing about THR is that we can all express our opinions freely without ripping peoples heads off over our differences.

I am also curious about who will and won't "arm up" in these times. It seems that most of the responses have been why you should or shouldnt "arm up" for various reasons.

Lets get to the basics here....who is going to arm up in this situation?

 

[Ironbarr]

WHO?

Now THAT"S a leading question.

Gone.

 

[spartacus2002]

well, I won't throw a rifle in my car, but I will take my 1911 everywhere I go.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Lets get to the basics here....who is going to arm up in this situation?

I think most of us are already there, at least with limited firepower small arms and a modest amount of ammo for same.

 

[Roadkill Coyote]

Lets get to the basics here....who is going to arm up in this situation?

No changes here. But as I said earlier, the real question is; it it practical for you to have a long arm in the car? If it is, then why not? If it isn't then don't. Practicality is more important that alerts in distant and well covered areas.

 

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Bought some cigars in case AQ decides to attack Exit 8A and cuts off our smog supply.

Other than that, no changes.

- pdmoderator

 

[Dead]

I would vote for staying away from the "Orange Zones" simply because the total grid lock that all the police activity has caused.

For example in Newark, NJ today, there were some areas that were completely shut down, noone in noone out of the area.

Total over reaction, nothing is going to happen, other than frightening many people to near death, and causing some major traffic problems.