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Employer gun free zones

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by herrwalther, Sep 13, 2015.

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  1. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Finally a bit of good news. After 2 years of playing Mr Mom to my two year old and being unemployed, I now have a steady job. Like most places it is one of those that have the large No Firearms, No knives, no alcohol etc etc signs. At new hire orientation I was told knives were fine (we open a ton of cardboard boxes) as long as the blade was 4" or less. Perfect, my daily pocket knife falls in that size.

    So for 2 weeks I have carried my knife, on display with pocket clip showing past the security office in full view. Within 4 feet of the guards coming and going out of the plant waving everyday. Now for the ridiculousness of gun and weapon free zones. I asked the guard about the weapon policy and absolutely no knives allowed, not even box cutters unless they are provided inside.

    So what do some of you do at work? I am considering getting a very small gun for pocket carry and carry anyway. Would rather be fired and alive than dead. Especially just 2 weeks ago, a fired former employee shot two co workers at a competitor's plant.
     
  2. Barry the Bear

    Barry the Bear Member

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    First off congrats on the new job! Hell I've been there to. At my current job it is policy not to have firearms or knives in the building
    However I am not gonna be unarmed. I carry my buck 110 in a black leather sheath on my belt, to the untrained eye it fits in as being a cell phone case. I also pocket carry a beretta jet fire in .25 acp. Not even close to the best set up but as good as I'm gonna need in my job environment. Also keep an n frame of either the .357 or .44 flavor in the car if need be.
     
  3. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Not at your facility but somewhere else. So, you just get hired and are already wanting to violate the company policies you just agreed to?
    Sorry, perhaps staying as Mr. Mom is a better idea, or finding a place that either makes you feel safer or allows carry.
    If your employer cannot trust you to follow their rules you agreed and signed to, why should they be able to trust you at all?
     
  4. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    I am waiting for the law suits when an active shooter enters these gun free zones, and is able to kill until the police (armed resistance) arrives, and the perp shoots themselves. If these companies get sued by families of the victims, they may change their policy, but I am not holding my breath.
     
  5. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    It is a consideration only at this point. The money to even buy a smaller firearm won't be available for at least another month. So I have plenty of time to think about it. Currently I abide by company policy and state law by leaving my full size carry weapon in my vehicle in the parking lot.
     
  6. Curator

    Curator Member

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    A good job is hard to find, but the money won't bring you back to life if something bad happens. It should be civil liability to force someone to eschew their basic right to self defense as a pretext for employment. If they can't or won't protect you but want to prevent you from doing that for yourself shouldn't they bear the responsibility? Cops carry side arms for SELF protection, not to protect the public.

    I never minded leaving my carry-gun in the car when I worked in the courthouse where everyone went through metal-detectors and there were armed guards at every entrance and exit. At my regular job where I did occasionally have to deal with potentially dangerous people, I carried discretely despite the rules against doing so. Our "security guard" had only a pair of handcuffs and absolutely no martial arts training. Pilot is right about law suits against companies who deny 2A rights to their employees after an active shooter enters their unprotected gun-free zone.
     
  7. jmace57

    jmace57 Member

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    The only place I DON'T carry is work...because of company policy. If you are an employee, no carry. A visitor, OK. (sigh)

    If you're willing to lose your job over it, go ahead and carry.
     
  8. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    If you truly carry concealed then the only time you would be discovered is if you ever have to deploy it for (whatever valid reason). At that point, if it meant your job or your life then the choice is easy. Loose lips sink ships so if you decide to carry then only you should be aware of it. Tell even one person and your chance of being discovered multiply tremendously.
     
  9. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    I have to agree. Why did you accept the job if you do not wish to follow their rules/policies? Whatever happened to integrity and honesty? Get caught and get fired and you will have a negative reference to work against looking for a new job. Now if it's just flippin' burgers at MickeyDs.....go for it.
     
  10. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    If you are willing to lose your job, then by all means carry......

    people can say "concealed means concealed"...but they forget people make mistakes and arent perfect all the time....

    If you are worried about an incident, they do make Level III plates designed to fit into a backpack or breifcase.......and you can always carry pepper spray on your keys (even if its technically verboten, no one is likely to give you much grief over it)....

    they dont want knives?......keep a letter opener on your desk.

    there are plenty of viable self defense options out there if you are unable to carry a firearm.
     
  11. HexHead

    HexHead Member

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    BS. Large companies that have HR departments are too afraid of lawsuits to give anyone checking references anything more than dates of employment, job title, perhaps salary or hourly wage. At most they might say "not eligible for rehire" without going into details. That's why that nut job that shot that reporter and cameraman on live TV had even gotten his job at that station in the first place. He'd had problems at other jobs, but no one gave him a "bad" reference.


    A job is just that, a job. And right now just about everyone is hiring.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
  12. yugorpk

    yugorpk member

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    .357 S&W in my desk. We have a sign up from saying no dangerous weapons but its not really an official policy. I was even told my the facilities manager I might want to think about keeping a gun in my desk just in case. I thought "I'm way ahead of you". I fire people all the time and have had death threats and even a office invasion by a schizophrenic homeless guy who was off his meds. Ive also known people who lived through some pretty brutal murders at work from crazed ex employees and vengeful spouses. I'll take my chances on the reference..
     
  13. ol' scratch

    ol' scratch Member

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    I am a freight train conductor. There are absolutely no firearms allowed at work. I work in a pool that terminates on the south side of Chicago and I have to get down to put my train away. Englewood is one of the worst neighborhoods in America. I think it is a safe bet that I deal with more hazards in my job as a road conductor. I don't like not carrying a firearm, but it is company policy. That and the fact that it is chi town and the laws are idiotic. I do carry a blade that is legal length for Chicago. When I walk a train, I carry a fusee (large flare) and an air hose wrench. There are other ways of defending yourself. Get creative. Sorry. I am not willing to take a hit that will cost me my career that pays very well or a felony conviction. Those of you who say just get another job aren't being realistic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
  14. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Then perhaps you need to find a safer place to work.

    Sorry, their house, their rules. If you don't like their rules, go somewhere else.

    You have a much greater chance of danger stopping at the C store for gas than at work.
     
  15. 627PCFan

    627PCFan Member

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    "Sorry, their house, their rules. If you don't like their rules, go somewhere else."

    Good luck with that if you have a specific career field. Do you think any "office professional" is going to be able to jump around to find another government contractor that allows concealed firearms?

    And in today's work space, company down honesty and integrity is none existent. Why bother chucking that back up the line?

    If someone goes bat S crazy in your office, do you really care if you get fired for having a gun? At least you might have the opportunity to be out-proccessed instead of being in-proccessed at the morgue.

    That being said, IMO even deep concealment is risky. Things happen, different pants have different pocket dimensions. You bend or twist one way and you print or worse. Off body carry would be my pick, hidden compartment in a suitcase.
     
  16. yugorpk

    yugorpk member

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    There were 2 million REPORTED incidences of workplace violence last year. While there certainly were some incidences of violence at minute marts I'm going to hazard a guess that there were not over 2 million people attacked in minute marts.

    I had a foreman (employee) that got caught with a revolver in his desk. Left it there over the weekend and a subordinate found it when he was looking for a manual. I was forced by the VP of HR to send him to a concealed carry class. Granted ours is not a "normal" company but the better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 also applies to the workplace.
     
  17. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    what qualifies as "workplace violence" ?....yelling? pushing? fistfight?....

    someone yelling and pushing me in the workplace would certainly be uncomfortable......but i really doubt ide feel my life was threatened to the point of needing to use a firearm.
     
  18. TomJ

    TomJ Contributing Member

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    Can you be prosecuted for carrying in a building that's posted? In Illinois you can be. Are you jeopardizing your concealed carry permit if you get caught? I don't know that this answers your question, but if you can lose your job, be arrested and lose your concealed carry permit, it may tilt the scales towards not carrying while at work.

    I know it's not the same scenario, but our church is a satellite location of a larger church and services are held in a school's auditorium. We're not allowed to carry in a school, so while I'd prefer to carry while there, I don't want to risk being arrested in front of my kids and losing my CC permit and choose not to carry for that hour or so per week.
     
  19. buckhorn_cortez

    buckhorn_cortez Member

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    I think you should do what makes you feel comfortable, understanding that it could cost you your job.

    I had to make the same type of choice with a company that prohibited handguns. I was accosted in the parking lot at about 4:15 PM with no security guard in sight. I managed to get out of it by punching the guy out and rapidly getting into my truck.

    I filed a police report, and the policeman taking the report said, "Interesting neighborhood." 'You have high-end hotels, restaurants, and office buildings - and an apartment house with druggies and dealers a quarter mile away." "This is my beat area and, personally, I wouldn't go to work around here unarmed."

    When I said, "The company has a policy the prevents carrying a gun at work." The police answer was - "If it's concealed, how would anyone know you have it?"

    Point taken....

    I calculated the risk of being accosted again versus being fired for carrying a gun. I took the "being fired is okay by me" route.

    I carried a gun everyday in my briefcase after that for the next three years until I retired. My wife was much happier that I had a defensive weapon, and I certainly felt much better at 6:00AM when I got to work

    Since the company didn't seem to be overly concerned about my safety going to and from my vehicle - I figured they were leaving that part of my job up to me - and I took care of it to my satisfaction.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
  20. GTS Dean

    GTS Dean Member

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    2 years without a job. Now you have one and are ready to flout your new employer's policy and risk losing it? Do you consider your new employer's plant to be every bit as likely to experience major workplace violence as the competitor's? Or, are you just using that as an excuse?
     
  21. Snyper

    Snyper Member

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    If I was too afraid to spend 8 hours a day without a gun in my pocket, so I could have a job, I'd stay at home.
     
  22. yugorpk

    yugorpk member

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    I know the guy who was the maintenance manager at Vaughn Foods in Moore, OK. Employee gets fired for being a total nuisance . Goes out to his car . Comes back with a knife and kills two women. Cuts the head off one and starts in on another. The CFO comes out with an AR-15 he keeps in his office and shoots the guy.

    In 25 years Ive known 2 women killed on the job . One by her boyfriend. The other by her girlfriend. Ive seen fights galore. Ive been threatened with grievous bodily harm on several occasions. Ive had my office invaded and I've called the cops and had a would be disgruntled ex-employee assailant carrying a gun arrested and convicted. If it happens on the outside it happens on the inside.

    .357 in the desk. AR-15 in the truck.
     
  23. jaysouth

    jaysouth Member

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    Start your own business and write the rules. My last company, I required managers to be armed. I bought them guns, sent them to high level training and required them to shoot semi annual qualification with a moonlighting Police Dept trainer. The first year that I gave my accountant the receipts for guns, ammo, lots of ammo, training and CCW fees, he about had a cow. It was all in written up in my company manual to create 'eyewash' for the IRS and him.

    It sure was sweet writing off cases and cases of .38 and 9mm ammo along with holsters and guns.
     
  24. gbran

    gbran Member

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    I split my time between my desk and time spent on the road or to client facilities.
    I can carry at work and travelling, but can't carry onto most client properties. It makes it difficult.
     
  25. splattergun

    splattergun Member

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    I work for a utility that forbids "guns, knives, clubs, or any other weapons" in the workplace. In the larger office buildings it is enforced with metal detectors and security people. Out in the field offices we don't have that "luxury", and our work often requires sharp blades. There are company provided knives specialized for the work, of course, but the no knives policy is commonly flouted. Pocket and clip knives are carried and used on a daily basis. Yes, myself included.
    On the other hand, I have never seen a gun in company buildings or vehicles. Anyone that's carrying is concealing well enough to avoid my detection.
    Weapons in personal vehicles on company parking lots is allowed per company policy and state law. Weapons must remain secure in the vehicle.
     
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