Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Encouraging News from New York

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Vermont Guy, Jul 24, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Vermont Guy

    Vermont Guy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    Ithaca, New York
    I've been in New York 6 months so the sheriff will accept an application to keep a pistol in my home. It is a rural county, population 50k.

    I need 4 references.

    There is a small group that gets together at the excellent local gun club range for trap. I've shot with them several times over the summer. Last time I asked three of them if they would sign as my reference.

    Three of three said yes. I take that to mean that the gun owners here have a little sense left.

    One did mention that he hadn't known me long but was only concerned as to whether the judge would accept it or not. We are content to leave that to the judge.

    In other news, my wife has applied in the county where she works so we have paperwork in two counties. She reported they were very nice and she had no problems filing.

    I'll keep you posted as this progresses.
     
  2. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,056
    Location:
    United Socialist States of Obama
    You consider this encouraging?

    An application to keep a gun in your own home?

    Letters of reference from 4 people?
     
  3. boofus

    boofus Guest

    You really need to move back to America. :what:

    What on earth possessed you to move from legal concealed carry with no license to that wormhole straight to socialist hell? :confused:

    It had to be a woman right?
     
  4. armoredman

    armoredman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    16,433
    Location:
    proud to be in AZ
    There is PLENTY of room in AZ for gun owners. You will think you dies and went to Paradise for firearms....unless you like snow, in which case both Vermont, (much closer) and Alaska have permitless carry, and few other restrictions.
    Leave Schumerland now, come back to America....
     
  5. RavenVT100

    RavenVT100 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,107
    Heh. I'm getting the F out of NJ in the next couple of years. You need references here too--they even contact your employer. It's ridiculous.
     
  6. dfaugh

    dfaugh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Messages:
    1,994
    I'm in NY, too

    Look at the paperwork..I think it either requires or recommends that your references have known you for 10 YEARS.

    What county is it, if I may ask
     
  7. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,438
    Location:
    Spring Hill, Florida
    Holy crap, I didnt need 4 references for my current job. You need to move back to america before you give tax dollars to the communist beast of NY.
     
  8. scubie02

    scubie02 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Messages:
    916
    Location:
    ny
    I hear those sentiments alot, and to some degree I am the first to agree. But then I hear other rules/laws from other states, some of them supposedly "gun friendly" ones like Texas or whatever, where they have things that are worse than NY in some ways. I have a full carry permit in NY that I've had almost 20 years. Yes, I had to do all the paperwork and have references and such to start, but it doesn't expire and I don't have to renew it every couple years like many places, often paying a fairly decent fee. I didn't have to take some course as part of the requirement, not that perhaps in this day and age when people are less likely to have someone to show them the ropes thats so awful, perhaps, but it opens the door to abuses--"sorry, couldn't afford/pass the course, no permit". And as of yet they don't limit the number you can have or anything. And there's no "you "qualified" witha revolver, so thats all you can carry". You don't have to qualify, and you carry what you please.

    So yeah, it sucks in many, many ways, but if you jump through the hoops then so far, anyway, at least in my county, you're ok.
     
  9. makanut

    makanut Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Messages:
    122
    I wouldn't be encouraged, but rather extremely distraught. As another poster suggested, you need to get out of Commieland and move to the United States of America ASAP. :(

    To be required to ask permission for a constitutional right is unconscionable. Again, many in Commieland can't read and understand the constitution. It shouldn't be that difficult for an educated populace. :banghead:
     
  10. RavenVT100

    RavenVT100 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,107
    scubie, pray tell how could a state like Texas be any worse than NY?

    I think you're living in fantasy land if you honestly think that. There's an ingrained, institutional bias against us on the East Coast. In TX there is not, and none of their policies come close to the restrictiveness and intrusiveness of NY, NJ, MA etc.
     
  11. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,056
    Location:
    United Socialist States of Obama
    Scubie, while you are answering RavenVT's question, how about also explain the relative difficulty of getting that permit initially in NY as compared to say a free state, like TX, GA, or FL?

    Could the average Manhattanite saunter down to the courthouse and expect to successfully acquire a permit to carry?
     
  12. RealGun

    RealGun Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    7,257
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    I will always disagree, but I don't recall any lawyer type that would allow an argument that one had any such constitutional right claim in a State, unless the State constitution provided its recognition. My understanding is that NY has no RKBA, which is effectively voluntary on the part of States. Anyone who has a license in NY has been granted a state-regulated privilege.

    Personally I rely upon the plain wording of the 14th amendment and don't want to hear all the baloney arguments why it doesn't mean what it says.

    I agree with the advice to move to America. Check any red state/blue state map, and you will have a good idea of where not to live, Vermont possibly the lone exception, if the total package suits you.
     
  13. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    The People's Republik of **********
    Don't listen to these guys, they don't know what they are talking about. If you don't stay and fight for what is right in New York, they will keep electing liberals to our national government and screwing things up for the rest of Free America. Stay where you are and fight for what is right. Moving out is just a cop out. Somone has to do the dirty work and it might as well be us.

    If Hillary gets re-elected next year, it is all of your faults for not encouraging good Americans to stay and oppose her. Think about that one.

    El Rojo, PRK Freedom Fighter
     
  14. RealGun

    RealGun Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    7,257
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    Should he be a martyr to serve someone else's needs? For centuries people have been coming to America to be free. Nowadays you need to be more specific. It's really an issue whether it's acceptable to live where self defense is illegal. We kind of get used to being abused, so it may be a lot more serious than it first might seem.

    With all due respect, I can't imagine being represented by a Clinton and a Schumer and the big city politics that elected them. Those held by family ties have my sympathy, but it may be hypocritical on purely economic grounds. Then you sleep in the bed that you've made. The choice is there.
     
  15. Moondoggie

    Moondoggie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    724
    Location:
    Small Town, Nebraska
    Don't count on that Red State/Blue State idea as a reliable guideline. My wonderful state, Nebraska, is most definitely Red and has no CCW.

    The City of Omaha has draconian gun restrictions to rival Chicago, NYC, or DC. :banghead:
     
  16. Kurush

    Kurush Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,078
    Pennsylvania went for Skerry and we have CCW with no fingerprints or references and no gun bans or licenses at all. We also are very welcoming of fed up Nyorkers who vote RKBA ;)
     
  17. GRB

    GRB member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,774
    A truer really American type of sentiment I have never heard before. You are right about fighting for the right things even in places like NY. To abandon a state just because it is aminly antigun only allows a larger margin of victory for the anti gun people. I live in NY; I am a member of the NYRAPA, I am a member of the NRA, I vote regularly, I write my representatives every now and again, and I donate money to promote pro gun attitudes and so on. I give it the good fight.

    Attitudes like this one below:
    seem defeatist to me. I don't like to live with Schumer or Clinton at the helm either, that is why I stay in NY and try to vote them out. Not too long ago we had another senator you may recall, Alfonse Damato. As far as self defense goes in NY, since when is someonme not allowed to defend his/herself in NY? Sure gun laws need to be changed here and, certain politicains need to be booted out but, running aay does not help the issue. By the way, if you think obtaining a gun license, or living under clinton and Shumer, is equal to being a martyr, my bet is you have no clue as to the real meaning of the word.

    best regards,
    Glenn B
     
  18. TimH

    TimH Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    766
    Location:
    upstate NY
    Your user name is Vermont Guy. Does that mean you came from Vermont ot NY? IF so ARE YOU NUTS :what: Anyways your lucky I live in Columbia County and most of my friends are leftists I have a snowballs chance in :fire: of getting a pistol permit
     
  19. scubie02

    scubie02 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Messages:
    916
    Location:
    ny
    see, the misconception of "being from NY" is that that means NYC. The state of NY is not NYC. There are lots of rural, conservative, areas of upstate NY. I grew up in a town with a population somewhere between 2 and 3 thousand people. There are towns here with populations in the hundreds. I understand that it is very difficult if not impossible to get a permit in NYC. However, there are counties in upstate which are virtually shall issue. As I stated, I have a full carry permit. I have heard lots of people from supposed "free states" that seem to have more restrictions than permit hoders have in NY. They are always talking about this or that business that puts up signs that say "no guns" which includes permit holders. I have NEVER seen that in NY. And to the best of my knowledge, if they DID put up a sign like that, all they could do was ask you to leave if it was private property and they somehow knew you were carrying--it wouldn't be against the law per se.

    So, how is NY less restrictive than TX? Well, let's see:

    Texas
    Initial Application

    The DPS supplies all Instructors with Application packets. Your Training Insturctor will supply you with the proper forms when you take the Training Class.
    You can apply for a Renewal CHL on line at DPS Web Site.
    Attend a 10-15 hour training course; lecture and firearms proficiency demonstration by approved DPS instructor
    Processing may take less than 60 days, but up to 180 days if there are problems with application.
    Many DPS approved handgun instructors provide one-stop package deal for applicant; photos, fingerprinting, lecture and firearms testing. Shop around.
    Renewals

    The renewal course is stipulated as a 4 hr. course, including range time. There is a quick review of changes in the law since the CHL was acquired, a review of child safety, and a review of non-violent dispute resolution. The renewal applicant then takes the same test as an original applicant. It is assumed that one who has a CHL knows the applicable law. The "proficiency demonstration" is the same for original licensees and renewal. The cost for renew is $70 for 4 years.


    hmmm, so let's see---you still have to apply to get a permit to carry, just like someone from NY, BUT you get to go to classes (10-15 hours initial course!?)and "qualify", then you get the "privilege" of paying $70 EVERY four years to "renew" it (and get to take that same fun test as originally, but luckily only a four hour course this time...)? Yeah, that sounds good. What if they decide not to renew it? My permit's good for life. No classes. No renewals. No $70 every 4 years. Up to six months to get it, which, coincidentally seems to be the same length stated for TX.

    Yes, we unfortunately have Schumer and Hillary in NY. As I recall, haven't there been some rather abrasive congresspeople from some of your "free" states as well? I guess I should blame you guys for that. :rolleyes:
     
  20. RealGun

    RealGun Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    7,257
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    Ah yes. Love me, love my State.
     
  21. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,056
    Location:
    United Socialist States of Obama
    Scubie, I know there are plenty of places in NY other than NYC.

    I just think your permit is more limited than you are admitting. Also, the NY permit really is useless to residents of NYC, because I don't think it gives them to right to carry anyway.

    Also, just FYI, we have no class requirements in GA.
     
  22. RealGun

    RealGun Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    7,257
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    A few New York tidbits gleaned from packing.org:

    "New York State requires a license for simple possession as well as for concealed carry. The Court Of Appeals ruled that restrictions on carry licenses, while administrative in nature, are allowable. Premise licenses as well as carry licenses restricted for sporting purposes are near shall issue, although difficult to obtain in certain counties (and the City of New York). Unrestricted carry licenses are easy to obtain or near impossible, depending on which county you apply in."

    New York State Consolidated Laws
    Civil Rights
    ARTICLE 2 Bill of Rights S 4.
    Right to keep and bear arms.

    A well regulated militia being necessary to
    the security of a free state, the right of the people to
    keep and bear arms cannot be infringed.

    Shall-issue Permit/License: no

    Reciprocity - none (my interpretation of the map, not a quote)

    Gun-friendly peaceable journey laws: no

    All guns are registered with the police, either state or NYC.

    [RealGun]

    New York City has its own licensing laws and actual licenses. New York State licenses do not apply in New York City. Interesting to note that an NYC license lists every gun owned and reads "licensee authorized to possess the following firearms:" How nice of them. I believe that would mean an update every time you buy a gun, or does that have to be authorized too?

    It's clear that the state constitution doesn't mean squat. Restrictions were even upheld by a district court...not that such treatment is unique to NY.

    I would have to agree that living outside of New York City and never needing to go there wouldn't be too bad in relative terms, but with no reciprocity or peaceable journey laws, I wouldn't expect NY to get very high marks from those who live in other more gun-friendly States.

    I see that I was mistaken in recalling NY as one of the States with no RKBA in its Constitution, but it doesn't look like it makes much difference. We are kind of all in the same boat. I wish you luck.
     
  23. TimH

    TimH Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    766
    Location:
    upstate NY
    In Vermont, if I'm not mistaken, as long as you're a resident, you just go & buy a handgun Thats it. Jujst buy it. How do you beat that. In NY I have to find 4 people that will say TimH isn't going to go on a shooting spree. Yes some counties upstate are pretty much shall issue but I would much rather have Vermonts laws regarding pistol carry.
     
  24. EghtySx

    EghtySx Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    607
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    As far as Texas CCW laws are concerned there is a reason for them. It has to do with our proximity to an unprotected national border and the problems associated with it.
     
  25. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    The founding fathers would weep.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page