Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Enough flare?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by JSmith, Jun 15, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JSmith

    JSmith Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Ohio
    I'm reloading .44 magnums in once-fired brass. Based on my experience with the .357 cases being shaved just a bit in the seating die, I decided to back off the flare a little on the .44. My question now is, am I flaring the cases enough to allow proper seating?

    Attached photo, left to right: 1) resized, unexpanded case, 2) primed and flared, 3) primed, flared, bullet finger-seated. The bullet is .609 OAL and goes into the case .11".

    I'm interested in your opinions on this.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,170
    Location:
    Wet Oregon
    I think you flared it too much. Just enough for the case to barely hold it for jacketed bullets is plenty.
     
  3. JohnM

    JohnM Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,640
    Location:
    Down there by the river
    In the photo it looks like wayyy too much.
    As said above, flare just enough to Barely hold a bullet in place.
    Lightly bevel the inside of your case mouth.
    If you load with lead it can take a touch more.
     
  4. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Yep.

    All you need to do is flare enough to hand start a bullet in the case.
    I like to hand start them straight so I can pick them up out of a loading block to seat & crimp them.

    rc
     
  5. kingmt

    kingmt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,604
    I agree. To much.
     
  6. mdi

    mdi Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,920
    Location:
    Orygun!
    .44 Magnum is my most favorite round, and I reload with lead 99.9% of the time (22 years ago I used some jacketed soft nose bullets, but no jacketed since). I don't think the flare pictured is way excessive, a bit maybe, but if it's working for you use that much. Some folks will warn about case life and heavy flaring, but I find that a non-issue. A straight case like the. 44 magnum will last a loooooong time, to the effect I quit counting reloads. I don't load near max. any more (all the dinosaurs are gone from Oregon) so I'm not wearing out my brass "prematurely", whatever that is. Use the amount of flare pictured and if it "drags" on your seating die, back off a bit...
     
  7. blarby

    blarby Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,144
    Location:
    Calapooia Oregon
    I agree, too much.

    You don't need a ton.

    As gamestalker likes to recommend, and I have tried- just chamfering the case mouth to allow seating of jacketed rounds works great- and in theory will extend case life.

    If you want to flare, a little less than that will do !
     
  8. dagger dog

    dagger dog Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,695
    Location:
    SO. IN
    You will get a lot of early, 2-3 loadings, case mouth splits with that much flare, it over works the brass and it becomes brittle.

    If the base on the bullet in your photos is flat,back off the flare die depth untill the bullet will just barley set into the mouth., it only needs to be the 2X the case thickness wider. A lot of nose pour cast bullets have a small bevel base which makes it even easier to use less flare.

    You will always have some bulge in the case as the bullet pushes into the sized case even with minimal flare.
     
  9. JSmith

    JSmith Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Ohio
    Huh. Glad I asked!

    When you guys say, "barely start a bullet"... I can do that without putting the case through the expander die at all. The photo is of a resized, unexpanded case - the bullet is still seated n the case by .05". It will stay there if I turn it upside down.

    I'm using Berry's plated bullets, not jacketed, and I'm afraid the case mouth will peel the plating off if I don't flare them at least minimally.

    Dagger Dog said to flare to 2x the case thickness. For these cases that's .012 so I'd flare the inside diameter by .024, does that sound right?
     

    Attached Files:

  10. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    5,093
    Location:
    Tidewater
    If it stays there when you let go and the bullet doesn't get shaved when you press it in, you're good. As you become more comfortable with your equipment and what it's going to do, you may find that "measurable" or discernible flaring is only needed for .001-.002 over caliber lead bullets.

    I rarely flare for plated or jacketed bullets anymore; if I do it's not enough to see or even feel.
     
  11. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    2,122
    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    When I flare my straight wall cases I stop when I can feel the flare more than see the flare. The flare is only necessary to allow the bullet to enter the case mouth without hanging up.
     
  12. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    9,832
    Location:
    SW Arizona
    I can't really add much to the already everyones excellent replies. Just bell (flare) to the least degree necessary. Or if you chamfer (bevel) the inside of the mouth nicely, you can skip the belling process enitrely. It's a time saving step that extends case life a bit and provides maximum neck tension.

    I'm glad my no belling method is working out well for you Blarby!

    GS
     
  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    46,711
    Location:
    Alabama
    Flare minimally. If you are not shaving copper, your good to go. Your flare will work just fine, and probably not lessen case life enough to notice, but I do not like to use more flare than the crimp can not only fully remove, but also push back against the bullet. That can be tricky when using a light taper crimp, but most times is easy enough.
     
  14. JLDickmon

    JLDickmon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    665
    Location:
    Comstock, MI
    Are your bullets .429 or .430?
    A .429 would need little, if any more flare than that..
     
  15. dagger dog

    dagger dog Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,695
    Location:
    SO. IN
    JSmith,

    I used that case wall thickness number just to give a rough idea how little flare is needed.

    Just as everyone else has said just use the minimal amount needed.

    I would imagine you are roll crimping for your 44 mag'.

    When you run the round into the seating-crimp die,if you have too much flare you can feel the outer edge of the case mouth wall drag against the inside of the die, as you reduce the amount of flare that dragging sensation will dissapear,then you know you have the correct amount.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012
  16. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,925
    Location:
    Cornelia, GA
    Good words.

    Flare may vary depending on the bullet. A lead bullet (being larger diameter) will require slightly more. Something like a bullet from Berry Mfg, with a radiused base, will require slightly less.

    One sure sign is that there are no bullet shavings under the seating die.
     
  17. ranger335v

    ranger335v Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,797
    "If it stays there when you let go and the bullet doesn't get shaved when you press it in, you're good."

    Exactly. The point of flare is to permit bullets to enter without damaging the heels, adding more flare that that accomplishes nothing at all. Properly chamfering the case mouths help.
     
  18. JSmith

    JSmith Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Ohio
    OK... I'm still going to flare, just a hair over the resized-case ID so the plating dosn't get shaved. (Berry's does caution - repeatedly - that that plating layer is pretty thin.)

    Question about the chamfer tool: after repeated reloads, isn't the chamfer tool eroding the case mouth from the inside, peeling off just a little at at time? I was of the understanding that you'd use one of those to deburr after trimming a rifle case, but not necessarily otherwise.

    Berry's lists the nominal diameter of these bullets as .429.

    And, as always... thanks for sharing your experience while I develop some of my own.
     
  19. JohnM

    JohnM Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,640
    Location:
    Down there by the river
    For me anyway chamfering/beveling is a one time operation unless it's a case that needs trimming, then of course it needs done again.
     
  20. Snag

    Snag Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    356
    To echo everyone else you need just enough flair to sit the bullet on top. When I stated reloading I did too much.

    Go for just a few thousandths, 3-5 works for me, larger than the case.
     
  21. edfardos

    edfardos Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    500
    I used plated in 44mag. Increase flare until the bullet doesn't wobble when you set it, watch for shavings, you can feel the flare with a fingernail more than you can see it.

    I'm giving up on plated in 44mag. Check your forcing cone for copper tinfoil and soft lead in your barrel. They shed plating, even at 1200fps.

    edfardos
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    46,711
    Location:
    Alabama
    Some revolvers simply hate plated bullets for some reason. I have had two of them. Others shoot them at 1300 FPS with excellent accuracy. Go figure. Most shoot them at least pretty well.
     
  23. JSmith

    JSmith Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Ohio
    I'm kinda stuck with plated bullets because the indoor range where I shoot has a "no lead" policy, and a jacketed round is more than I want to spend to punch a hole in a piece of paper. The 220gr. Berry's plated were .14 each in quantity 1000, MidwayUSA has Sierra Tournamentmaster 220gr FMJ for ~.25 each, quantity 100. The Sierras would be a fine bullet, I'm sure, but that's still a quarter flying downrange every time I pull the trigger... 25.00 for my usual two-box range visit... and one of the reasons I started reloading was because of the ammunition cost.

    The plateds worked well the last time I shot 'em, now I'm just getting some details worked out. Thanks again to the forum for helping.
     
  24. blarby

    blarby Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,144
    Location:
    Calapooia Oregon
    That flare looks good.

    Just be careful of your crimp on the plating.... I know, something else to look out for, right ?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page