enough is enough?

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I was given a 6" 357 revolver by a friend who could no longer use it. He also gave me 50 rounds handloaded by him.

I went to the range and filled the cylinder with his 357 rds. My first shot, 25 yards, no rest, was in the center of the X. Yes. I swear it. The rest of the rounds in the wheel didn´t even hit the target.

I think 357 is not for me. I´ve spent some thousand rounds trough that revolver, but never again a 357. Most of them 158 grs LSWC over 5 grs of Unique (A +p load) and full WC 148 grains (A very mild one).
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Were you wearing hearing protection?

For the .357 and similar cartridges, I wear ear plugs with ear muffs over them. Much of the pain of shooting a .357 -- in a full-size revolver -- is the assault it makes on your ears.

Another issue is grips. I have a Colt New Service revolver, and these revolvers can be loaded to .45 ACP +P levels (around 21,000 PSI, about 50% above SAAMI standards.) The old-fashioned grips on this revolver let the trigger guard rap my knuckles every shot. I whittled and sanded a set of "Magna-style" stocks out of a piece of scrap walnut and that has made a big difference.
 
I am very glad that I get most of my information from actually shooting guns on the range and not from reading the Internet. Unfortunately with the Internet anyone can post on a topic without ever having any experience with the topic.

Vern has it dead right. The primary advantage to J-frame revolvers is their lightweight and small size for easy concealed carry. They also have a small grip frame to enhance concealability however this actually works against use of hot loads as the grip is too small for most shooters, especially males. The small grip makes it hard to control the recoil. Larger grips fit the hand better and helps to improve control. The tradeoff is loss of concealability and rubber grips can be tacky and cause clothes to cling to them thus printing the gun.

The 357 magnum is a powerful round. It is load, has sharp recoil and big muzzle flash. It takes practice to master it even out of K-frame revolvers. When I say master it I mean being able to place all of your shots within the 10 ring at 7 yards, not those 12" pie plate groups that shooters like to post bragging on their shooting ability.

As Vern says...go shoot a box out of magnums out of snubbie. Then do it rapid fire...go ahead I'll allow you you to do it two handed weaver stance. Now do it one handed, as fast as you can, no cheating such as using shooting gloves. Try it indoors on the range. Oh all the rounds need to hit the kill zone in a group that can be covered with your hand.

A few can master the magnum in a snubbie. Most of mere mortals will be content with 38+p's and work on shot placement.
 
Based on my research and chronograpy work I've decided a 357 with a barrel less than 4" long is pretty useless unless your goal is to just make a lot of noise. Compare some of the results of 357, 38 and 9mm from various barrel lengths here.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html

In a nutshell a 38+p from a 2" or so barrel is not that much slower than 357 mags from the same length barrels. In fact a 9mm+p from a comparably sized auto will outperform short barreled 357's.
 
Guillermo said:
What could be the reason for that?
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His first shot was perfect, proving the gun and load liked each other. But then he knew what blast, flash and kick awaited him for each successive shot. My guess is the other 5 shots were yanked low left.
 
357 mag ammo from a snub is going to give you an impressive fireball. This impressive display of pyrotechnics is caused by the powder burn rate . Most velocity specs for ammunition manufactures is based on 6" barrel revolvers. To achieve these higher velocities they use a slower burning powder. This allows more powder with a better distribution of pressure without exceeding the 357 magnums 35,000 psi. That is why some powders have a ceiling of 6 gr. and others can go to 14 grs (the pressure is more concentrated on the faster powders). For this reason my snub gets a different load than my 6" 357 mag. By changing powders I can achieve the same velocity without wasting powder and lighting up the night sky. This also applies to 38 ammo and barrel length.

I guess what I'm trying to say is choose your ammo correctly. Every situation is different and not all barrel lengths are the same. If you don't reload, read up on what's the best for your "38 shorty" or your "8" magnum".
 
In a nutshell a 38+p from a 2" or so barrel is not that much slower than 357 mags from the same length barrels.
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I respectfully disagree. .357 rounds offer a statistically significant ballistic advantage to .38 special + P rounds, in most factory loadings, even when shot out of a snub.

An average .38 ranges from 110 - 158 grains in weight and between 900 - 1100 ft/s in a snub.

In comparison, an average .357 ranges from 125 - 180 grains in weight and between 1100 - 1300 in a snub.

Whether those differences will offer an advantage in self-defense, who can say? All things being equal, give me the .357.

Of course all things are rarely equal. I probably wouldn't shoot .357 in anything lighter than a steel 640 or SP101. On the other hand my GP100 never gets .38 anymore because its potential is so much greater with .357, and because cleaning out .38 crud rings in the cylinder is no fun.

The scandium/aluminum/titanium J and L frames really shine with low pressure special rounds.

That said, I enjoy .38 and carry it from time to time. The corbon dpx, buffalo barnes x, speer gold dot 135, and buffalo 158 SLWCHP are the way to go.
 
My guess is the other 5 shots were yanked low left.
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someone suggested that he might not be shooting without "ears on"...I didn't want to assume that anyone would be so foolish.

Shooting without hearing protection is just...well...I can't say it or a moderator will ding me.
 
Quote:
My guess is the other 5 shots were yanked low left.
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someone suggested that he might not be shooting without "ears on"...I didn't want to assume that anyone would be so foolish.

Shooting without hearing protection is just...well...I can't say it or a moderator will ding me.
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While I agree that no one should shoot without hearing protection, I see it all the time.

And I agree with the guess that the shots that missed went low and left -- and we know what causes that. So clearly something is causing a lot of flinching. The primary cause of flinching is pain -- either through the ears or through the hand.
 
While I agree that no one should shoot without hearing protection, I see it all the time
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I am not sure that I would trust anyone with a firearm that does not wear ear protection.

That lack of judgment is stunning.
 
One of the main considerations with 38 is unlike its brethren 44spl and 45lc from that era its not a big bore cartridge that can yield satisfactory terminal results sans expansion. This is exastorbated by the fact you're shooting it in a 2"barrel. If very careful bullet selection is made this can be overcome somewhat but at the expense of not meeting FBI penatration minimums in many cases.

A 38 that doesn't expand due to the low MV of a snubby will almost always out penatrate a 357 mag bullet that expands due to having more energy to put into that expansion.

I personally think 38 is OK and a step up from 380acp but its not in the same class as 9mm or 357 wich operate at 100% more pressure.

If one wants a snub nosed revolver that puts out near 357 performance without the obnoxious blast and flash full house 357's tend to make check out a revolver in 9mm. Other options are midrange magnum loads like Remington's 125 golden saber wich sacrifice a couple hundred fps for the sake of controllability yet still do much more than even 38+p

More 38 ballistics from snubbies here

http://www.snubnose.info/docs/snubby_ballistics.htm



posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about
 
I'll take a contrarian view to the question posed.

I don't worry about it.....the odds of me getting into a gunfight are slim to none based on how and where I live as well as where I choose not to go for obvious reasons.

If I were to ever be in a situation where a gunfight were likely, the odds are I wouldn't be carrying because the event I would be attending is a pistol free zone by law.

So, at the end of the day this is all just Internet arguing and hopefully none of you will have to worry about it either.

Not very technical, I know.
 
I am not sure that I would trust anyone with a firearm that does not wear ear protection.

That lack of judgment is stunning.
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We're from different generations -- the Army did not issue earplugs until the late '60s or early '70s (which is why so many veterans have hearning problems). I can remember seeing pistol shooters with cartridges stuck in their ears like ear plugs.
 
henry-ctc said:
I was given a 6" 357 revolver by a friend who could no longer use it. He also gave me 50 rounds handloaded by him.

I went to the range and filled the cylinder with his 357 rds. My first shot, 25 yards, no rest, was in the center of the X. Yes. I swear it. The rest of the rounds in the wheel didn´t even hit the target.

I think 357 is not for me. I´ve spent some thousand rounds trough that revolver, but never again a 357. Most of them 158 grs LSWC over 5 grs of Unique (A +p load) and full WC 148 grains (A very mild one).
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Were they lead slugs? The barrel could well have leaded up.
 
I can remember seeing pistol shooters with cartridges stuck in their ears like ear plugs.
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Which is at least an attempt to address the problem


But these days, everyone knows that shooting permanently damages one's ears.
It is foolish AT BEST to shoot without ear protection.

I would question shooting with foolish people
 
hkguns,

You're blessed to live in such a safe place.

Out here in the rest of the world, we have restaurants (Luby's), theaters (Aurora), grocery stores (Tuscon/Gabby Giffords), and places of worship (Milwaukee/Sikh temple), to name a few places which are not gunfree zones where deranged shooters have killed and wounded large numbers of people. There are bad people out in this part of the world, many of whom disregard "gun free zone" signs. Do you really believe those signs will protect you? Virginia Tech is a gun free zone. Seung-Hui Cho chose to ignore the signs and policies and laws and killed 32, wounded 17.

I prefer to have some chance of surviving such a situation.

I think the odds are not particularly high, but neither are the odds of my house burning or being flooded. I have fire extinguishers, home insurance, and flood insurance nevertheless. I haven't had to use CPR since 1965 but I maintain my certification anyway.

Different strokes, etc.
 
There is no question that 38 can do the job. There is also no question that 357 will do it better.
It's like asking if you should use a 16 oz or a 20 oz hammer to drive a nail.
It's all about the person. Personally I think the 38 is just fine for carrying for defense and that's been pretty well established. At the range, 357 will wear you out eventually. In a stress filled SD situation, you'll say ,"what recoil?"
I would say the main advantage of a 357 out of a snubby is that if you miss the target, You still left em deaf blind and burned.:D
To each his/her own.
I have always carried 38 standard in my 2.5 because I always figured the last thing I would want is for the bullet to keep traveling beyond the target. That being said, it sounds like I need to due more research after reading in this forum that out of a snubb a 38 could fail to expand due to lower velocity. I use hornady critical defense. I'll have to check into that.
 
I always wear eye and ear protection at the range. I was young back then, well younger than today... around thirty.

I´m not a very tall man, and my hands are not big. Anyway I can handle a Glock 17 and a CZ 75 perfectly. And yes... the grips are factory. That´s a point I can easily improve.

But for someone used to 9mm the 357 is a beast.

And the reason for missing those five shots was, I admit it, the fear to feel that recoil again.

Am I a coward? No I just know what I can stand and what is, or not, suited for me.
 
It's nothing to be ashamed of -- everyone has to overcome flinching, particularly when you're not ready for all that recoil.

One trick is to shoot .38 Specials in your .357 until you feel you have mastered the gun. Another one is when you shoot, don't count your shots -- shoot until you get a <click!>. That way, you'll see your reaction on that last trigger pull and learn proper follow-through.
 
The man knows what he likes and its .38, not .357. His opinion does not infer anything about him, including experience level. Lets move on with the discussion :)
 
Tony_the_tiger said:
The man knows what he likes and its .38, not .357. His opinion does not infer anything about him, including experience level.
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Yes, it does, since he first said he had no clue where the remaining five shots went.

Of course , he can shoot or not shoot whatever gun or caliber he desires.

But he should be aware that a .357 in a full size all steel gun isn't that difficult. He can then decide if he wants to learn how to shoot one better.
 
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