Entertainment for the night...
- Thread starter PTK
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longdayjake
Member
You don't happen to have really long hair or a burley beard or maybe even be a minority? I can guarantee that if you had a suit jacket on no one would have even cared.
I bet that that "concerned citizen" feels great that they just kept you from blowing up the U.S. most ultimate terrorist target. They should get a reward for saving all of the helpless children at walmart.
I bet that that "concerned citizen" feels great that they just kept you from blowing up the U.S. most ultimate terrorist target. They should get a reward for saving all of the helpless children at walmart.
Mcuraddoc
Member
PTK-
One or ninty-nine...it doesn't matter. I'd like to shake your hand...and have you escort me into my local Wal-Mart....
I never feel safe even with my 9mm...
One or ninty-nine...it doesn't matter. I'd like to shake your hand...and have you escort me into my local Wal-Mart....
I never feel safe even with my 9mm...KiltedClaymore
Member
LOL handcuffs suck dont they? 
longdayjake
Member
By the way, I do believe that it was mentioned earlier that a police officer would need to have probably cause to do a terry stop. This is not true. He only needs "articulable suspicion." In this case the citizen that phoned in just happened to be the one that is responsible for the "search" because once they get a call like that they are acting on what is called "good faith." They don't need articulable suspicion because an agent outside the government gave them the tip that you were dangerous. If the conserned citizen happened to be some form of "government agent" like an off duty cop, you would have grounds for false imprisonment. I doubt you would have much of a case in court simply because the citizen was the one that carries most of the responsibility in this case. I would sign a citation against them for giving false information. It sounds to me that you were a far cry from "active shooter." Or whatever it was that they accused you of.
VARifleman
Member
longdayjake, the term you missed is reasonable, and it's a simple "Do you have a permit?" "Yes, here it is" "Thank you, have a nice night" instead of cuffs and a lecture.
I suppose so. I never really bother concealing very well here in CO, and when out of state I make a HUGE point of properly concealing. If it hadn't been chilly tonight, I'd have OCed. Haven't had a problem with that yet, funny that CC is what got me!
They never asked for a permit - they simply cuffed me and disarmed me. Not until AFTER my guns were off did I state that I had a permit (and one of them nigh shot me with my own XD45.... dolt.)
I'll be calling WM HQ in the morning, seeing what happens with that...
That sure would've been nice.
I'm clean shaved other than a goatee (well trimmed) short hair under a nice ballcap, and clean pants/shirt/suspenders. I've never had an image problem.
Heh, well, thanks. Kind words.
Freakin'-A yes.
You try saying no to puppy-dog eyes from a cute 18 year old woman.
I do generally stay out of WM though. Now.... I'm staying out.
I tried to carry two full sized pistols once.
After two steps I realized I was no longer wearing pants, but I had invented a pair of ankle-cuffs made of blue jeans, a cheap belt, and two pistols.
Haven't tried it since I got a stouter belt.
PTK, what belt do you use?
(And you have made multiple references to this 18 yo SO, cmon, show us a pic of her shooting some guns!)
After two steps I realized I was no longer wearing pants, but I had invented a pair of ankle-cuffs made of blue jeans, a cheap belt, and two pistols.
Haven't tried it since I got a stouter belt.
PTK, what belt do you use?
(And you have made multiple references to this 18 yo SO, cmon, show us a pic of her shooting some guns!)
I knew someone would ask.
I wear a no-name thick, stiff leather belt about 1.5" wide along with a nice pair of suspenders. No issues yet!
Of course, it helps that the two guns I'm carrying are in the super-lightweight class for fullsize handguns!
KC0QGL
Member
Just for fun once I carried my Blackhawk .44mag, Bersa .380, Taurus .38 spl., NAA mini .22 lr. and I dared not undo my belt.
I think the most I ever carried at once, successfully, was 15 handguns.
Concealed.
(of course, I was wearing a trenchcoat...)
Yep.
Wow, so original.
Oh, oh, I have a great idea! Let's all in-fight until the antis have a ball of a time destroying our rights and making those that carry any guns at all "abnormal".
KC0QGL
Member
WOW just WOW.
KC0QGL
Member
Let me know I would love to see. The most I have ever carried was 7 at once, most OC, when I'm out at the grass lands shooting.
JesseL
Member
Man, that is unbelievable. Incredibly bad handling of the situation by the store and the police.
The only thing a Wal-Mart employee has ever said to me in regard to my open carried gun was to ask if I'd like to buy some ammo for it - they didn't have any .41 Mag though.
I'd be seriously surprised if WM corporate doesn't put that manger in his place.
The only thing a Wal-Mart employee has ever said to me in regard to my open carried gun was to ask if I'd like to buy some ammo for it - they didn't have any .41 Mag though
.I'd be seriously surprised if WM corporate doesn't put that manger in his place.
FmrMarine
Member
I have lurked here for some time, and this thread finally convinced me to register. I felt the need to reply to articulate a view I haven't seen in the thread yet. While I understand and respect to OP's right to carry that which is legal, I think it would be bad for those interested in preserving/promoting the RKBA to have this situation hear in a court of law via a lawsuit by the OP. A jury of 12 average joes/janes would hear about a man shopping at Wal-Mart with 3 loaded semi-automatic pistols, over 100 rounds of ammunition and a knife. The media would seize on it and could very easily paint CCW holders in a negative light.
Just my .02.
Just my .02.
JesseL
Member
FmrMarine, I understand your concern - but what would you do about it?
What would the media and a jury of 12 average people think if for some reason my house was searched and it came to light that I had in excess of 30 firearms (including several "assault weapons"), tens of thousands of rounds of ammo (including deadly hollowpoint bullets!), several pounds of gun powder, high explosives purchased over the internet (Tannerite), switchblade knives, and tools and materials capable of manufacturing machineguns and silencers? And an infant living in the home!
All perfectly legal too.
Should we start self-policing our own legal behavior just because of worries about how it might look to the uninitiated?
The best slaves are the ones that forge their own chains.
I think that the wisest thing we can do is to be open and unashamed about what we do, and hope that eventually the public at large will realize that we're not so dangerous or crazy as they've been led to believe.
What would the media and a jury of 12 average people think if for some reason my house was searched and it came to light that I had in excess of 30 firearms (including several "assault weapons"), tens of thousands of rounds of ammo (including deadly hollowpoint bullets!), several pounds of gun powder, high explosives purchased over the internet (Tannerite), switchblade knives, and tools and materials capable of manufacturing machineguns and silencers? And an infant living in the home!
All perfectly legal too.
Should we start self-policing our own legal behavior just because of worries about how it might look to the uninitiated?
The best slaves are the ones that forge their own chains.
I think that the wisest thing we can do is to be open and unashamed about what we do, and hope that eventually the public at large will realize that we're not so dangerous or crazy as they've been led to believe.
(puts on flame proof suit)
As for the first half, what is unreasonable about an officer handcuffing an unknown armed subject when investigating a "man with a gun call" before disarming and ascertaining their status? The term reasonable suspicion keeps getting batted around here but I think some of the posters have an incomplete understanding of the concept. The term refers to what a hypothetical "average officer" would believe constitutes suspicion. Not your average citizen, not your average CCW'er, nor average lawyer, store clerk, hair dresser or anything else. What exactly is not suspicions to the “average officer” about finding a subject that matches the description of an armed subject of unknown provenance at Walmart in the middle of the night. To add suspicion, the subject is found with three firearms and accompanying ammo and until the weapons are removed off his person, fails to state he has a permit. To the posters who are screaming constitutional rights violations, think about this. . .
As a cop and member of the jackbooted oppressor class, I personally like to go home at the end of my shift. If I find a subject that I have been sent to find as a "man with a gun call" I'm NOT going to ask him or her to reach into their pockets to produce a permit or ID. The first thing I'm going to do is secure said hands to ensure that they don't pull out a gun and shoot me. The next thing I am going to do find said gun and secure it. The next thing I'm going to do is figure out what is going on. Looking at the OP's description of events, that is what happened. OP was ID'd as matching the description of a suspicious person, placed under what is commonly referred to as investigative detention, and released when it was found that there was no violation of criminal law. What in this chain of events or logic was unreasonable?
As for the second half, I see far too many people in my department, slack with firearms safety. I agree, “dolt” is right. We even have a hole in or training room floor courtesy of a negligent discharge. I found a round n the chamber of an AK type rifle found on a dope warrant that everyone “knew” was clear.
Lastly, I feel like a dilettante. I carry a Kel-tec .380 in the summer with a spare mag and a S&W five screw with a Bianchi speed strip in the winter.
Here's the deal. If you sue and make a fuss, the city is more likely to properly instruct their officers on how to deal with CCW holders in a legal manner.
Police departments in some ways are like dogs, they will get away with what they can get away with, and as the owner of the dog, it is out responsibility to make sure the dog learns to behaive properly.
If you win a big settlement beyond your legal fees and feel badly about that, then donate the money to a local shooting program, the NRA, have a minute man statue put up in the park, or whatever.
RobNDenver
Member
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PTK,
Do you have a CHL issued by a Colorado Sheriff? Please post a follow up if any action is taken by the Sheriff to revoke your permit.
I've found that just carrying my Officer's Carry Pistol, in a Desantis Speed Scabbard and an extra magazine I have to be careful not to show it inadvertently. I usually wear camp shirts (Woolrich Elite) that are designed to ride a little lower and conceal a little better. Downside is that I think they make me look fat.
Your call, but I think one of these kinds of life-altering experiences would be enough for me to rethink the way I attempt to conceal my handguns so as not to call attention to myself again. If you get made again, I would bet that your concealed handgun permit is at risk. I would also bet that the Sergeant voiced what every one on the scene was thinking.
Do you have a CHL issued by a Colorado Sheriff? Please post a follow up if any action is taken by the Sheriff to revoke your permit.
I've found that just carrying my Officer's Carry Pistol, in a Desantis Speed Scabbard and an extra magazine I have to be careful not to show it inadvertently. I usually wear camp shirts (Woolrich Elite) that are designed to ride a little lower and conceal a little better. Downside is that I think they make me look fat.
Your call, but I think one of these kinds of life-altering experiences would be enough for me to rethink the way I attempt to conceal my handguns so as not to call attention to myself again. If you get made again, I would bet that your concealed handgun permit is at risk. I would also bet that the Sergeant voiced what every one on the scene was thinking.
FmrMarine
Member
Good Points Jesse.
Would submit that there is the presumption of a certain amount of privacy in one's home. When we leave our homes we forfeit a certain amount of that privacy, like it or not. Your privacy is further reduced by carrying more gear than you can properly conceal as seems to be the case here.
Would submit that there is the presumption of a certain amount of privacy in one's home. When we leave our homes we forfeit a certain amount of that privacy, like it or not. Your privacy is further reduced by carrying more gear than you can properly conceal as seems to be the case here.
See if the Zombies come, PTK will need an extra gun to toss to his SO and an extra for between the two of them if more crap hits the fan ie jam, out of ammo, friend or relative along, etc.
I'm not one to be underprepared or overprepared, but depending on location with gangs often running rampant I can see how having 3 firearms could help level the playing field. But if you cannot conceal them appropriately, it may be time to downsize a bit and get the SO to OC or wait for her to become 21 and both CCW.
I'm not one to be underprepared or overprepared, but depending on location with gangs often running rampant I can see how having 3 firearms could help level the playing field. But if you cannot conceal them appropriately, it may be time to downsize a bit and get the SO to OC or wait for her to become 21 and both CCW.
Innocent until proven guilty...? Why assume I'm a nutjob (after getting the items and standing in checkout line for 5 minutes!)
Also, I don't volunteer information to LEOs, no offense. I didn't exactly feel like saying much after having my hands restrained and asked "where's the gun" in a rather interesting manner.
No problem with that!
Innocent until proven guilty. I think it should still mean something - if I'm just standing in a checkout line, shouldn't I be assumed to be just another guy?
Hence my near-shouting at the officer that there is NO SAFETY on an XD45 four or five times...
Yes, and there would be exactly ZERO legal ground for him to do so.
Perhaps, but again, had it not been cool outside I'd have OCed as I sometimes do. Having OCed many times in Golden and Lakewood, I didn't think there'd be a problem with half-hearted CCing.
Cute, but partially right. My SO and I have trained so that if the SHTF, I grab the gun of my choice and she gets the other if she's close enough to get it before I'm moving for cover/concealment.
I do indeed understand where many of you are coming from in terms of the viewpoint that I'm carrying too much, don't need that much, et cetera. To that, I simply state: I am not breaking any laws, I am simply exercising my rights.
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