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Erie County Pistol permit upgrades

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Bstack67, Mar 17, 2008.

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  1. Bstack67

    Bstack67 Member

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    I live in NYS Erie Counry , I have A CCW with restrictions ( hunting and target ) I want to upgrade to unresticted licence. The pistol permit department on the application is asking for just cause to issue it unresticted. Other than living in erie counry most other countys in the state issue unresticted there are some counties that are just as bad as erie county, But does anyone have any thoughts on what to tell the pistol permit department why they should issue an upgrade to unrestricted ?? other than it is my 2 nd amendment right and that Erie county is ridicious by placing restrictions on law abiding cititzians.
     
  2. Superlite27

    Superlite27 Member

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    Don't have to deal with good reasons here in Missouri, but I'll try to offer some ideas anyway. I'm not sure about requirements so I'll toss up a few even though they might be a stretch.

    How far are you from a police department? Could you use a lengthy response time as a reason?

    What about carrying large amounts of money? Is there documentation required? I know I have huge sums of cash on my person every so often. Sometimes as much as $20.

    Are there any convicted felons who have no idea where you live that might be considered dangerous to you who live far enough away that it would be impractical to come find you? I'm sure some threatening person who lives in California or Utah has verbally threatened your safety at some time in the past. Could you get an order of protection against this person? Would this help provide a good reason?

    Who determines this "just cause"? I take it that not wanting to get murdered isn't considered a just cause? I don't advise being dishonest, but I would find out what the exact definition of "just cause" is, then be liberal in the application of truth in order to meet it.
     
  3. Keegan

    Keegan Member

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    "Personal protection."
     
  4. romma

    romma Member

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    All Lawful purposes.
     
  5. harbingerm

    harbingerm member

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    In CT, I just put "target/self-defense" on the form when I went to get the permanent state license and I don't even think they looked at my reason as I got it in about 5 minutes.
     
  6. Shooter57

    Shooter57 Member

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    We had a couple of counties like that here in Michigan, then we became a shall issue state and that took care of them withholding CCW's.
     
  7. CNYCacher

    CNYCacher Member

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    How about for those long hikes you go on in the Adirondacks when you are not target shooting or hunting?

    Onondaga county (Syracuse) does this to people as well, but if you are not a cop or connected some other way, there is no "upgrade" possible. However, Camillus Sportsmen's club has a 24/7 indoor range, so at any conceivable time, you 'could' be on your way to the range. :)
     
  8. harbingerm

    harbingerm member

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    Well, bad guys are "targets", right? Jes sayin'...
     
  9. denfoote

    denfoote Member

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    This is New York, right??
    My advice is to consult an attorney that specializes in navigating the floes and eddies of New York firearms law. Look in the Manhattan phone book, you should be able to find one!!
     
  10. CNYCacher

    CNYCacher Member

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  11. denfoote

    denfoote Member

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    OK.
    I live in Arizona.
    I thought he wanted to know about NYC.
    Even so, don't you think consulting the above mentioned Attorney is a wise move?? I do know that New York firearms laws are a hodge poge of conflicting pitfalls and traps. A mistake on a form can leave you denied with no further recourse!! It may be worth a couple of hundred bucks to find out what he needs to do and get help with the forms!!
     
  12. Bstack67

    Bstack67 Member

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    I am sure there a many loop holes to carry with restristions , as the investgative police cheif told me as long as you are going from point A to point B you can carry as long as it is concealed and you are not stopped at 4 am and tell them you where tagert practicing use common sense. I have talked to several several State trooper who tell me as long as you got licence they will never question your restrictions, I own 5 hand guns and it is just frusterating to keep them home , dont make sense to me, Erie county is the worse,,
     
  13. LAH

    LAH Member

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    For the protection of myself and my family.
     
  14. CNYCacher

    CNYCacher Member

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    Also, it stands mentioning that carrying outside your restrictions is not a crime. The worst that can happen with you getting caught carrying outside restrictions is a LEO decides he is going to rat you out to your issuing judge. Said judge, upon learning of your rampant disregard for his superior judgment, may decide to punish your uppity peasant butt by revoking the anointment he has so generously graced you with.
     
  15. DragonFire

    DragonFire Member

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    Personal Protection is what I was advised to put on my applications. I also had hunting and formal and informal target practice.

    If you try to use the line of "carrying large sums of money", or "carrying cash for business" be prepared to back that up with facts.

    Most of this is not covered by black letter law. There is alot of descrection left to the judge and county. So ANY lawyer won't be of much good. A lawyer from your county might help.

    Also talk to someone at your local gunstore (not Walmart, the smaller ones). They probably have a good feel for what the county is looking for.
     
  16. MilsurpShooter

    MilsurpShooter Member

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    Consulting a Manhattan attorney for an Erie permit wouldn't do much good. NYC laws are sperate of their own, completely different than what is on the books in any other portion of the entire state. County to County the rules are completely different.

    As far as your upgrade Bstack... Well only a few possibilities come to mind, hiking/traveling/fishing during a non-hunting season. I'm sure you guys have some large predatory animals or not so friendly snakes that don't just magically stop appearing in the wilderness when it's not hunting season right?

    I know here in Westchester the monetary route is a PITA (Bank Statements, banking records, letters of certification and constant checks)

    If there's a range near you 24/7 well that would be the best course of action in my mind.
     
  17. DragonFire

    DragonFire Member

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    Saying you're on the way to the range is risky. It's fine until you have to use your firearm to protect your family in McDonalds, or the grocery store or whatever. Yeah maybe they don't hassle you, but maybe they do. And if you really needed to defend yourself, you might not care.

    But restricted to target practice and hunting, doesn't mean you get to carry it concealed to/from the range or field. Supposed you get bumped while waiting in line at the bank, or have to go by ambulance and the EMT find it? Individual LEO may not have much say in what happens, or how big a fuss is made over the restrictions.

    The judge can revoke your permit altogether, and then you'd have to explain the denial any time you'd try to apply for a new one.

    There are recourses you can take if your upgrade is denied. You can ask for the reason it was denied, in writing, and then appeal that decision. Yeah, its a hassle, and a hassle you probably shouldn't have to go through, but a paper-work hassle is alot better than a criminal hassle.
     
  18. ImARugerFan

    ImARugerFan Member

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    Good luck. I live in Broome County and it's the same BS here. I had high hopes when we recently got a new judge, but word on the street is that it's all the same still. Unless you own a retail business with lots of cash (even then it's not a sure thing) you will get the hunting/target shooting restriction. It is complete BS.

    The problem with the 'always on your way target shooting' is that if I'm not mistaken our hunting/target shooting restrictions require us to carry openly also.

    The best advice I can offer is to write your state representatives and plead with them to change state policy in order to remove the power to restrict permits on a county by county basis. There was a bill in the assembly a year or so ago, but it didn't go anywhere.
     
  19. KODB

    KODB Member

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    Unfortunately, that is the way things are done there and have been for at least 25 years in my personal experience. I used to live in Niagara and then Erie counties; same bs when I was there. Unreasonable restrictions on my personal rights despite honorable military service and gads and gads of training lead me to not come back to NY after my military service and education. I moved to PA and couldn't be happier!


    Regards,
    Bob
     
  20. 67charger

    67charger Member

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    hey rugerfan, I also live in Broome County and havent ever heard that you are to carry openly under anny circumstances. it is called a concealed carry permit for a reason.
    Carry at your own discretion is what I say. Legally we are not to carry in a school or gov't building or a business where alcohol is sold\served.
    If you are stopped it is your obligation to inform the LEO that you have a loaded firearm on you. whether to and from the range is your story or not. when you received your permit labeled "for hunting and target shooting only" you should have also received in the same envelope a letter explaining your obligations and limitations outlined. I shoot competitively locally in IDPA and USPSA and there are several guys from other counties as well as local law enforcement there and can tell you they have mixed thoughts on "us" carrying. I have a friend who is local town police officer and thought he was cooler than he was. I talked about taking him to a small IDPA match with me and come to find out he is gainst ANY civilians carrying. So- All I can say is carry at your own discretion and may the people necessary be on your side if you get caught and people arent happy. I personally believe I will deal with that if and when the time comes, but I believe in carrying for mine and my families protection. I hope it never comes to that but I dont want to be the defenseless one caught in the middle of a shooting spree intended against me. I found that when I carry I am more polite and reserved. That is my opinion and I wont be swayed by someone perspective or statistics. I feel I have to more level headed than ever and take the attitude to walk away or avoid theconflict to begin with. AND YOU HAD BETTER BE DAMNED SURE YOU MADE EVERY ATTEMPT TO AVOID THAT CONFLICT AND HAD ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER WAY OUT BEFORE YOU DRAW IF IT EVER COMES TO IT. That will probably be your best, or better yet- ONLY defense in court that will mean anything today. just my $.02
     
  21. CNYCacher

    CNYCacher Member

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    67charger,
    I see that this is your first post here, so Welcome to The High Road!

    Respectfully, I disagree with your assertion that it is illegal in NYS to possess a firearm in a place that sells alcohol, likewise government buildings (except for courthouses). You would be able to change my mind by citing the section of NYS law that backs up your assertions.

    Aside from that, thank you for your insight into the opinions of the various law enforcement officers you have had contact with.
     
  22. 67charger

    67charger Member

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    Hey, thanks- I DO STAND CORRECTED. I found the paperwork I recieved with both my NY and PA permits and the wording does not mandate the restriction of carrying on premisses where alcohol os served or sold, rather "suggested". Thanks. The wording on the paperwork received from Broome County sheriff's office regarding the NY permit states "Firearms MAY NOT be carried on school property or in schools, on airplanes, or in Federal Government Buildings, unless special permission is obtained, and are illegal in County parks. For your own safety, do not take a pistol(s) into public buildings, taverns, restaurants or to parties. Never leave loaded pistols where others can handle them."
    The paperwork I received from the Susquehanna PA Sheriff's dept with my permit states "Avoid carrying in locations where alcoholic beverages are being served"
    So- for years as I entered a liquor store or bar and thought about whether or not I am carrying it was only "for my own safety". Thanks, I had always remembered it as a no-no. I can now be more factual regarding carrying do's and dont's. thanks again.:D
     
  23. jbkf1003

    jbkf1003 Member

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    Bstack67:

    How did you make out with this? I also live in EC and have a restricted permit and hoping to remove my restrictions.

    Thanks
     
  24. longfoot

    longfoot Member

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    CCW Permits in Broome County, NY

    There is a Handgun Safety course that is now being taught in Broome County. I took mine in August. We had a three hour lecture at Gander Mountain Friday night then an all day class at the sportsmens club in Owego on Saturday. We did quite a bit of shooting there too. You might want to take a look at this website.

    http://www.safeinrochester.com/firearms.html

    A number of those who have taken the class have had the restrictions removed from their handgun permits. I got a note this past weekend from a friend who was in my class and he just got his unrestricted permit. I'm hoping to hear the same thing this week. They say officially that taking the class is no guarantee but barring any unusual circumstances most people who take the class can have their restrictions removed.
     
  25. jc650

    jc650 Member

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    Erie County

    I live in Erie Co. and on the application it states that "personal protection is not a valid reason for a concelaed carry permit".
     
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